Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

[arnimacarni]

I really Hope Dnite stays viable with the dlc2 additions and Roaring moon coming back. I just want to DDance once and say "fuck it we speed". Brain empty.
Is the new tera mechanic starting in OU btw?

I mean we literally don't know what it is. When the "Mask" concept was leaked we didnt know it was only Ogerpon. Wait and see at this point.

 

[Martin]

Everyone who complained about power creep and then voted to unban Darkrai on the survey has officially forfeited the right to complain about power creep

 

[KamenOH]

Everyone who complained about power creep and then voted to unban Darkrai on the survey has officially forfeited the right to complain about power creep

Ok but like what if we complained about people trying to bring the meta back to gen 8 standards?

 

[That_Dwayneee]

Just because I don’t think I’ll be able to post this tomorrow before the thread gets locked

 

[Moyashi]

Ok but like what if we complained about people trying to bring the meta back to gen 8 standards?

No one is trying to bring the meta back to gen8 standards, nor is it remotely possible as has been reiterated hundreds of times this gen.

 

[Storm Zone]

Looks like the dlc approaches but i do have some thoughts to share on this upcoming metagame
okay i knew since day 1 this thing was a fraud and i am so glad we had it in oupl for 1 week to expose it for how weak it actually is, although it has its niches in this metagame, its not borderline broken and it can be a nice mid-tier breaker or support mon, cant 2hko everything when u barely get chances to plot and have to rely on a 60% move or get beaten by a garganacl tera anyway

i never understood why this went in the first place, it checked alot of meta threats and was not broken on its own, 1 specific tera cant beat everything, terablast ground beats tran, then u lose to dnite or tera moon, vice versa with fairy and u lose to tran, matchup based pokemon, too weak for ubers and has too many niches in ou, gotta love him

praising council for this one, this thing was never broken, great knock user, checks ogerpon, solid ghost resist and sun abuser, if we were gonna keep kingambit this thing shouldve definitely stayed, i think people were just in the heat of the moment being mad at sneasler and terrain, while the council was forced to tier the meta in such short time, this was a panick ban on a completely fine pokemon that has a niche on the ou meta

Loved him but i knew he was broken, sad to see him go still but it had to be done.

ye ik hes kinda broken but give him a chance in ou, hes not better than wellspring imo, wellspring does his job better, u dont see urshifu forcing a tera dragon on every single pokemon, surging strikes is contact too, cudgel is not

hate this thing, Finch is in love with him for some strange reason, its too broken bro, its typing throws it over the edge, yes its nice in ou for checking stuff like gambit, but this meta is not meant to be dominated by BO, and this pokemon ensures that BO dominates the meta alongside rillaboom

ye keep it in ubers love it personally but id be very stupid to sit here and say an ice type with no switchins is not broken its 2023 ladies and gentleman xD u just cant do that ( ) its almost like your IRL friends wanted you to defend it as a favor to them but even i didnt believe that donkey crap i wrote on it anyway, cause who pays people double digits to defend an uber amirite? Thats crazy fam xD ur identity is safe, but man that ban had to hurt you inside and i know this one will too because youve expressed openly to me about wanting baxcalibur back, it wont happen and i wont defend it this time.

initially i voted ban because i hated this pokemon with a burning passion it was so warping and restrictive, and i hated it back then too im the #1 gliscor hater, but i do admit, vert was right, the gliscor meta was far better than zapdos clef garg hamurott fest. Let it back in, good choice to give it another chance

nah this is getting banned but give it a chance atleast, let us have fun, i have hope it might stay but im biased, i know it wont seem broken in theory, but somebody always makes a set that breaks it, like never melt ice in swsh, and itll be alot easier to break it in this gen bc of tera options, even if it loses roost.

i mean this was ridiculous, i voted ban in my head before the council even put their vote out

P.S.: Tera is fine, terablast is fine, but a terablast ban would not hurt if thats what it takes to keep it, absolutely love this mechanic, balances out the game defensively, while making the offense better.

 

[TheTraininator]

Everyone who complained about power creep and then voted to unban Darkrai on the survey has officially forfeited the right to complain about power creep

I hope you realize what you’re saying is essentially this:

It’s possible to both state that the powercreep this generation is ridiculous and acknowledge that said creep has made it possible to make Pokémon like Darkrai potentially manageable. I mean, I can literally directly point to the speed control options of the Booster Energy Pokémon & Zamazenta as reasons why Darkrai being healthy is even an entertain-able concept. If this is the hand we’re dealt, then we have to play with it, and one of the ways we work with what we have is evaluating our bans from time to time.

 

[AK]

Thoughts on the unbans

I still don’t think it was the right time to bring it back, I would have much preferred if we did that at a later time with a stable metagame but it’s not the end of the world and I agree it needed a chance at some point so I’m curious to see how it goes.

Really hope we focus on getting terablast out the tier, Stresh and SZ said it well, it brings a lot of good defensively and helps with some threats, but I’m still not a full believer that it won’t become dumb cheese and too much of a gamble if we don’t touch on terablast. Happy to see it back either way.

I agree it deserves another chance, everyone is right we should’ve touched on Sneasler first and it might be fine without it, let’s see how it goes.

I don’t really care about the hazards part of Gliscor but I still really think the SD set will be problematic as hell, there was absolutely no reliable counterplay to it on balance and I don’t see how that could change really. But it was never broken on its own, yes, so it deserves an unban.

Thoughts on the bans:

Baxcalibur will never have a place in this metagame. I’m glad we’re not wasting time because the result would’ve been inevitable, way too restrictive even though I appreciated how it could pressure Zapdos. Goodbye forever hopefully.

I really don’t understand why the vote was so close, last time it had a chance in OU it was a pure disaster and was way too much to handle when used on HO/Offense. Dumb cheese, nothing to do in this metagame.

We don’t have reliable water resists that don’t get abused by other things or plain passive, if this changes in the future I would be open to consider it but right now absolutely not.

This thing will never be okay unless Grassy Terrain is abolished or something. It was the right decisions, it has no place in the tier and I don’t think any addition will ever change that.

I think the Council was spot on, good job

 

[Martin]

I hope you realize what you’re saying is essentially this:

View attachment 579171

It’s possible to both state that the powercreep this generation is ridiculous and acknowledge that said creep has made it possible to make Pokémon like Darkrai potentially manageable. I mean, I can literally directly point to the speed control options of the Booster Energy Pokémon & Zamazenta as reasons why Darkrai being healthy is even an entertain-able concept. If this is the hand we’re dealt, then we have to play with it, and one of the ways we work with what we have is evaluating our bans from time to time.

It appears you have missed the point of my throwaway one-liner joke. Irrespective of whether the creep makes it manageable or not, complaining about power creep and then advocating to introduce something that indisputably contributes to said power creep—something that features every single offensive trait that people consistently complain about when complaining about power creep (crazy high speed, crazy high firepower, not-a-true-glass-canon defensive stats, Nasty Plot, perfect coverage, excellent neutral type on STAB)—is contradictory and is a big part of what makes this thread so infuriating to read.

If ppl want to say fuck it and introduce something stupid with power creep as the justification, go for it. But I don’t want to see anyone who advocated for hitting “fuck it” complaining about the power creep they are leaning into. Either you are for it, think the game is better if allowed to mostly self-balance, and want to embrace it; or you think it’s a poor mode of self-balancing, think these crazy minmaxed insanemons make the game less playable, and want it more aggressively regulated. Pick a side and own it.

 

[Bunger Royale]

Man, why are people here throwing tantrums at those wanting to see a mon retested. Darkrai was massively nerfed and deserves looking at in OU. Maybe it might still be too strong, but the childish behaviour aimed at people who voted to bring it back is absolutely embarrassing.

I've just lurked on this website, but I need to say something, because this is not okay

 

[MattC (Banned)]

The day of reckoning is upon us. The pathway to a utopia all rests on the entire OU playerbase. You've had a year to figure out the early meta bans. We all need to make this tier better -- especially since DLC 2 is only a few hours away. I'm rooting for all of you to do the right thing.

And with that being said, goodbye. See you all in the 2nd DLC!

 

[Dead by Daylight]

This is our last shot, everyone.

Let's not mess it up.

 

[Lightniong]

Well

It’s been fun

See you all

On the other side

Of the indigo disk

 

[apoteosis]

Okay here's my top 10 (I'm not counting banned stuff):

10.- Back when every mon has some form of Ice coverage, or when and were in every other team, Dnite wasn't as good. Now, however, it can get back to what it was doing since the start of SV: Extreme Speed the *** of the tier. Encore Dnite is my favorite set, hands down.

9.- Pult is a fantastic mon, capable of fulfilling many roles (specs breaker, DD sweeper, stats spreader, etc). Not as versatile as Val, but a great mon nevertheless. Were if not for Gambit, it will be broken asf.

8.- A staple of gen9 OU, its versatility is its main selling point. Capable of being a mixed attacker, CM Sweeper, abusing hypnosis and encore, hell, it can even be a physical sweeper. Every Val set has its counter, but you have to guess which one is it.

7.- Another staple of OU, he is the only good spinner we had, sadly this DLC1 was forced to carry SR, RS, (ground attack) and Ice Spinner, which was lame, since with that moveset, you can't touch Dengo. A great mon nevertheless.

6.- Everyone's favourite "hazard control". Were if not for court change, this mon will be UU material.

5.- Maybe it's just me, but when you climb in the ladder, this thing is less and less broken. Somehow the fabled reverse sweep stopped happening and you are stuck with a useless mon or dying to zama's body press. Don't get me wrong: Gambit is a fantastic Tera abuser, but it kinda suffer the same fate as Or maybe the meta is overprepared to Gambit, idk.

4.- this is a tie between and This core is disgusting, it's gen8 all over again, but without futureport and with an immortal dark-ground instead. I think that the Council saw that and that's why and were released. Listen to me: any meta who is dominated by is by definition, disgusting and annoying, and nobody wants to play that. Yes, gen8 is balanced, but boring.

3.- lol do I need to elaborate on this one? I remember that when SV came out, we were all testing the new mons, rejoicing using broken stuff like and and back in the day, everyone thought that dengo was in the same level of OP. Alas, time passed by and we were all bewitched and none of us kept pushing for a Dengo ban. Then came DLC1 and we used as our scapegoat, but then rose the disgusting mentioned before. So the real culprit was, and always has been, I hope that, after the usual round of quickbans, we could at least suspect Dengo.

2.- Another tie between and Grassy Terrain is so good, almost everyone got the reqs for the DLC1 suspects with a grassy team. The infamous core of and is too good to be true; proof of it was its rise to prominence during the height of Gliscor usage. Plus, Rlla is a fantastic wallbreaker in itself. CB Wood Hammer under terrain is capable of destroying supposed checks like Zapdos or other x2 resistances to Grass. Real counters to Rilla are limited to 4x resists like dnite. As per Zama, it's a fantastic sweeper who has taken Gambit's place as final boss. Anyways, two fantastic mons who have great synergy, but not stupid as Dengo and Waterpon.

1.- This mon is the undisputed top 1 of DLC1. Great speed, great ability, excelent movepool, and awesome typing meant that it doesn't even need to tera. Wanna sweep? Use SD + Horn Leech + Trailblaze. Afraid of static/flame body? NP, you got a physical, contactless move that has increased hax rate. Afraid of dragons? NP, use Play Rough. Wanna be funky (by Funky I mean stallbreaker lol)? Use Encore. It even has spikes, for God's sake. ¡Spikes! This mon is a testament that the problem with gen9 is not tera, it's powercreep. I sincerely hope that it got banned sooner or later during DLC2.

HONORABLE MENTIONS: Great check to waterpon and the grass team, underappreciated, but great.

 

[Light DN]

My thoughts :

It seems broken but will see

I hate flame body

Knock off is too much on this mon

Broken

Deserves a try in OU

Broken

Broken but I love it

Broken but ye it's either gliscor or Zapdos so even if I'm mad about Gliscor coming back it might be a good idea.

I think it'll be bad. (Not Uber)

Beyond Broken

 

[YubelVT]

My thoughts :

It seems broken but will see

I hate flame body

Knock off is too much on this mon

Broken

Deserves a try in OU

Broken

Broken but I love it

Broken but ye it's either gliscor or Zapdos so even if I'm mad about Gliscor coming back it might be a good idea.

I think it'll be bad. (Not Uber)

Beyond Broken

Now for mine (replying just so I can get the same mons easier this isn't a direct response to yours)

Probably broken but anything could happen
Didn't deserve to get qb'd but is objectively very strong, we'll see if this is the last generation of the matchup moth
DEATH. HARD TO IGNORE.
you know my opinions on this fucker
Punching glove exists and it has swords dance, easily the strongest rain abuser in the game, waterpon has to get lucky too because it can't take a close combat
No thank u :3
ONE MILLION LOST FIVE MONTHS INTO THE WAR
shouldn't have been an initial drop but we'll see how this plays out
oh boy I can't wait to get swept and pp stalled by the same set!
I was wrong in my initial assessment of this thing, it's really fucking stupid.

 

[Kadiro]

My opinions:

potent sweepers that went to far because of tera, maybe we can handle it this time with new mons and playstyles. IMO roaring moon will get eventually banned, cant tell about volc

fast and strong but somewhat limited offensively, also it has 0 defensive utility. OU will handle it nicely

once the broken stuff gets banned this thing will rise to the top and do the same thing, it didnt have a reasonable counterplay last time and it wont this. im a big hater of this mon so i hope it goes asap

u dont think is that broken until u go teambuilding with this in mind, crazy good, maybe it will be unbanned some day but im ok with this in ubers

broken

ridiculously broken

regular zama is unhealthy enough with the ID+ press set, i dont want to see this thing ever again in OU

fck this

 

[658Greninja]

Volc doesn’t feel overwhelming despite the obvious Tera Elephant in the room.

It needs Tera Ground to beat Tran and Dirge, but the former is often paired with Rillaboom anyways, so many Tran teams handle it perfectly fine. SpD Gliscor could eat a hit and click Toxic. Moon is also around, so Bug Buzz or Wisp might be needed til it gets banned. Same with Dnite except Volc doesn’t have anything for it. If it wants to beat Wogre, Tera Grass and/or Bug Buzz might also have to be used.

While yes its true Volcarona can pick and choose its checks, some of these mons are paired with other checks like Wogre to Tran, Wogre to Moth, Dirge to Gliscor or Milo, there is always a trade off when it clicks Tera. Increased Knock Off in the tier makes it harder for Volc to set up without losing it’s trademark Boots. More status flying around too, so its setup opportunities are lesser.

 

[YubelVT]

Volc doesn’t feel overwhelming despite the obvious Tera Elephant in the room.

It needs Tera Ground to beat Tran and Dirge, but the former is often paired with Rillaboom anyways, so many Tran teams handle it perfectly fine. SpD Gliscor could eat a hit and click Toxic. Moon is also around, so Bug Buzz or Wisp might be needed til it gets banned. Same with Dnite except Volc doesn’t have anything for it. If it wants to beat Wogre, Tera Grass and/or Bug Buzz might also have to be used.

While yes its true Volcarona can pick and choose its checks, some of these mons are paired with other checks like Wogre to Tran, Wogre to Moth, Dirge to Gliscor or Milo, there is always a trade off when it clicks Tera. Increased Knock Off in the tier makes it harder for Volc to set up without losing it’s trademark Boots. More status flying around too, so its setup opportunities are lesser.

Thank you. Volcarona is objectively really strong this generation, but at the same time you have to choose what you lose to with your teras and that's not always a gamble you win. In my experience, you have to choose between Tera Rock for dnite, tera grass for the waters and garg, and tera ground for heatran. All of these leave you open to different things (although tera grass is definitely the least vulnerable it still leaves you vulnerable to priority if you can't ohko the user.) and it's always possible to just get a bad matchup. Again, volc is stupid strong, but it's not unbeatable. This is definitely the pinnacle of the "matchup moth" moniker

 

[JunkoAJ]

As a final topic for this thread, I'll go ahead and suggest doing your personal "Top 10" for the DLC1 meta. Have fun, be kind to each other, and have a nice day.

1 - idc if he fell off, he's still the goat, that guy, #2 usage, best late game sweeper of all time (probably should be banned tbh)
2 - still the swiss army knife, does anything you need it for, best role compression this gen, usable on many structures
3 - best spinblocker of all time, can be bulky, can cripple stall, can recover, immune to status, one of the reason hazards are fucking broken (also ban this guy imo)
4 - everyone's favourite non-binary pokemon, offensively flexible, fits on many structures (maybe could be banned but I love them leave them alone)

5 - she's just good isn't she lmao, has any move you could want her to have, great speed tier, absolutely fucking broken signature move, also surprisingly bulky if she chooses to tera, stab recovery as well
6 - blazing speed, incredibly strong on both spectrums, can provide utility, can be a wallbreaker, good thing this motherfucker doesn't have poltergeist otherwise we'd be finished
7 - bro he just comes in and either starts killing shit or pivots into smth else that kills shit, wtf is wrong with this monkey
8 - part of this zap/king/lu core that's popped up since recently, fits onto many teams, strong, is an electric type that can actually threaten the most popular mon in the tier
9 - bulky, great pivot, fits on slower structures very well, can set up snow, and has regenerator + slack off for crazy longevity
10 - Fast pivot, the only mon in the game that can clear hazards in front of Dengo bc it's fast with Libero, it can be hard to hit it super effectively because you essentially have to guess what type it'll become unless you outspeed it

Gliscor, Roaring Moon, Volcarona, and Darkrai will be unbanned from SV OU with the Indigo Disk DLC:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...-from-sv-ou-with-the-indigo-disk-dlc.3732524/

I always wanted Gliscor and Volc to come down so that's fine, Moon is a fringe case I can see why it'll be coming down. Darkrai obviously never had a shot and everyone says it's shit now so we'll see.

I also think we're gonna need to be wary of pulling up and being Bax 2.0 lmao, it can do the literal exact same thing except it can actually be burned unlike Bax, BUT Kyurem can also run a special set and is a tiny bit bulkier

 

[CobsonYaoi]

I'm still really salty about Gliscor being suspected and banned before Gholdengo.

This ugly yellow turd is what made hazard removal so hard this gen. Anyways I'll see you guys when the Indigo Disk drops, godspeed.

 

[RaikouLover]

Thank you. Volcarona is objectively really strong this generation, but at the same time you have to choose what you lose to with your teras and that's not always a gamble you win. In my experience, you have to choose between Tera Rock for dnite, tera grass for the waters and garg, and tera ground for heatran. All of these leave you open to different things (although tera grass is definitely the least vulnerable it still leaves you vulnerable to priority if you can't ohko the user.) and it's always possible to just get a bad matchup. Again, volc is stupid strong, but it's not unbeatable. This is definitely the pinnacle of the "matchup moth" moniker

Gah. Volcarona will still be crazy. It was qb for a reason. Arguably the best set up move in the game, recovery, good stats, and the ability to change your type to whatever you want whenever you want…. What could possibly go wrong? I’ll predict Volc stays for two weeks at most.

 

[1LDK]

What's your favorite moment in DLC1? The most fun I had in this DLC was when

 

[RudeLiees]

What's your favorite moment in DLC1? The most fun I had in this DLC was when

Mine was when calyrex shadow was not banned

 

[Welcome to mars]

Wait wait, is kyruem starting off in ubers? if not then why do i see it being talked about(maybe people know its going to do its stuff again?), it seems like its going to ubers instantly