Metagame np: Stage 2: And I'm Home [New Shifts, post #16]

[Shaneghoul]

Home is finally dropping (for real this time woo)! With it comes a whole load of new NFE toys to try out, the soon to be available batch are listed below. As always we will be keeping an eye on how things develop to make sure nothing becomes too overbearing, and with PU Open currently ongoing we as a council will consider the option of a quick ban into a suspect test on problematic Pokemon if it's needed. This would allow us to give the Pokemon a fair chance without interfering with the tournament. Hopefully that won't be necessary though, but of course feel free to use this thread to give your thoughts and let us know what you think, but remember to keep it civil. Happy posting and enjoy Home everyone!

New Pokemon

Basculin-White-Striped
Braixen
Diglett-Alola
Kubfu
Qwilfish-Hisui
Fennekin
Grimer-Alola
Growlithe-Hisui
Grookey
Meowth-Alola
Sliggoo-Hisui
Sneasel-Hisui
Slowpoke-Galar
Thwackey
Voltorb-Hisui

 

[Perla]

This is a very nasty mon. I really enjoy using it, but I don't know if it really belongs to this tier

Sets

Sneasel-Hisui @ Choice Band
Ability: Inner Focus
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Gunk Shot
- Night Slash
- Quick Attack/Switcheroo

Sneasel-Hisui @ Eviolite
Ability: Inner Focus
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Trailblaze
- Night Slash

Sneasel-Hisui @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Gunk Shot
- Quick Attack


Sneasel-Hisui @ Eviolite
Ability: Inner Focus
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Toxic Spikes
- Close Combat
- Fake Out

This mon has a lot of selling points:
- its high base speed (115) makes it a threatening revenge-killer or sweeper as it can outspeed lots of the meta and become unreachable after a Trailblaze
- it has SD and powerful moves in CC and Gunk Shot. For ghosts you can run Night Slash (unlike the OG Sneasel?)
- it has a good typing, with key resistances so you can set up more easily: moreover unlike the old sneasel , your typing doesn't care about Stealth Rock so you can run eviolite to get more bulk
- it is a T-Spikes absorber, maybe better than Skuntank


I think that SD sets are the best ones with Eviolite or Life Orb if you want more power. CC is mandatory (even with Tera Fighting I would say).
Imho Trailblaze is better on the bulky sets, while Quick Attack on the LO one (old sneasel had Ice Shard, but this and Fake Out are the only priority it gets).
I wouldn't underestimate banded sets: the speed and usable attack make them viable.
And it has Switcheroo

Losers
Everything slower:

 

[rien]

quick thoughts on some of the new home nfes + the sets i used:

Sneasel-Hisui @ Eviolite
Ability: Inner Focus
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Poison Jab
- Night Slash
​

pre-home release i gave it the benefit of doubt, but after finally getting to see it in action i absolutely think that it's busted. perhaps most surprising to me was just how decent its eviolite bulk is even without investment, together with its typing which makes it not care about rocks it just finds setup opportunities super easily. super good speed tier and hits really hard even without boosting. i don't think it's healthy for the tier, i don't support tiering action at least until we know exactly what we're getting from june shifts but i don't think much will change for it.

Qwilfish-Hisui @ Eviolite
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Spikes
- Barb Barrage
- Liquidation
​

bulky fast qwil is just a super reliable spiker with fast taunt, good bulk and cool coverage options, although at least on this set it doesn't get to click barb barrage as much as it would want to. by far our best spiker atm. have yet to see or try out more offensive sets like sd rain sweeper, i'm open to changing my mind if this turns out to be a problem, for now enjoy it while you can before it inevitably rises to nu/ru in july.

Thwackey @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Grassy Surge
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Knock Off
- literally whatever, this might as well remain empty
- U-turn​

i really wanted to like thwackey as a scarfer but this is honestly ass LOL. not even knock off and u-turn can save it from its low attack and middling speed. band/sd sets might be a bit better, but losing grassy glide this gen just really sucks for it. maybe i'll try different sets post-shifts, for now i'd recommend steering clear of this and using a better scarfer.

some thoughts on other new mons/ones with new moves:

- have yet to use it and i probably won't as long as sneasel+qwil dominate the tier, spikes just seem super unforgiving for it. i can definitely see the appeal in it as a reliable lilli+masq check to just slap on a team though
- basically a basculin-red that can hold an eviolite when you'd really want to hold a choice item or even boots instead. no niche with last respects being (rightfully) banned. just use basculin-blue.
- gets cosmic power now. cp+stored power has the potential to pop off but it likely doesn't make much of a difference since y'all never ran cm or other boosting moves on it anyway. probably best to stick to otr but lmk if i'm wrong
- i always feel like there's some untapped potential in stantler and psyshield bash might make me try it again, who knows? but for what it's worth i faced one of them today and it did absolutely nothing. imo trick+band is absolutely the way to go with this mon, please lmk if u try it
- i'd unironically consider using it on stall now that it gets heal bell. bulk is far from good but absolutely not the worst thing in the world, no soft-boiled sucks but rest+natural cure can function as semi-recovery. it really doesn't need to be this amazing special wall or smth, it just needs to click heal bell twice or thrice in a game maybe even seismic toss once and then die and it can likely accomplish this just fine.

 

[third bonnie]

I had this datamine doc made by RoiDadadou open and it mentions Kubfu getting No Guard, yet it's not on SD nor on Bulbapedia and Serebii dexes. I guess the doc had a mistake in it?

 

[Morge]

Qwilfish-Hisui @ Eviolite
Ability: Swift Swim
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Liquidation
- Crunch / Rain Dance
- Gunk Shot / Poison Jab / Barb Barrage

Qwilfish-H is a pretty cool rain sweeper. Its typing and bulk makes it pretty easy to get a swords dance off and its very scary at +2. Water/Dark/Poison has pretty great coverage and beats a lot of the things rain sweepers traditionally struggle with. Barb barrage is an alternative to Gunk Shot/Poison Jab which is better if you have toxic spikes up and some boots knocked off or long term against bulkier mons, but without T-Spikes support the other 2 are more immediately threatening. The speed EV's outspeed +1 Charizard under rain, the only things you miss out on compared to max speed that are on the speed tiers thread at least are other Qwillfish running max speed and max speed Golduck under rain and Rock polish Stonejourner and I don't remember the last time I ran into that set so you're probably good (This spread also works for Golduck since its also base 85). If you don't wanna run a dedicated rain setter you probably swap crunch for rain dance since I think crunch is the least valuable move here but I'm not entirely sure on that (You get walled by Sligoo-H without crunch). Can't wait to have to change every team with it come July.

Oh also:
This mons really silly, outspeeds everything except the Dugtrio/Wugtrio which can't switch into it at all and Electrode which is Electrode. Its shockingly easy to just swords dance with it or just kill everything instantly with choice band. Probably the most broken mon we got, please ban.

 

[Morge]

Woah new drops

It's back! Rotom frost is back from its trip in NU and its probably not as good anymore unfortunately. Scarf sets still have to contend with that nasty rock weakness and its generally easier to out offense nasty plot sets now, and it really does not appreciate Sneasel-H's presence in the tier. Still, it's got a good amount of set variety that makes it very scary until you know the set and stab bolt beam is always gonna be scary even if you have to rely on blizzard for the beam, and its an excellent tera abuser.

Not entirely sure how good this mons gonna be. Toxic boost seems like a scary wall breaker with its high attack, swords dance and stab facade, but it's quite squishy and while 90 speed is good, it gets outrun by a lot of key offensive threats, and of course its a mon that can't run boots and is permanently poisoned so even if it's not getting hit back that hard its not staying around for long. Potentially very scary, this thing hits monstrously hard, especially at +2, but I'll need to play against it to see.

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

The thing I want to know is if Zangoose will fully outclass Squawk in the Guts/Toxic Boost wallbreaker role or not.

And actually I don't think its that black and white, Squawk can use Flame Orb which makes it have slightly more longevity, has a Ground immunity to get in slightly easier vs say Gabite, and also has Flying STAB and U-turn.

 

[5Dots]

It's pretty good at facilitating VoltTurn teams with Volt Switch baked with incredible STABs. Unlike other Ice-types, Frosttom gets some defensive utility as an Electric resist and a Ground immunity, which can help against Gabite, Raichu, and Rotom-Fan, allowing more switch-in opportunities. Compared to Fantom, it's a huge improvement as the Ice STAB (Blizzard's 110 BP vs. Air Slash's 75) is more threatening offensively and Levitate is actually meaningful, and can run Nasty Plot and Choice Scarf sets just as effectively, if not moreso. It's able to pressure Pokes and force Teras more quickly like Gabite, Gogoat, and Raichu more effectively thanks to the better STABs. An overall threatening but solid addition to offensive teams in need of a revenge killer or sweeper.

It's a decent side grade to Squackability. Toxic Orb alongside Swords Dance makes it just as threatening when given a free turn, combined with a neutrality to Stealth Rock but the slightly lower Speed combined with the lack of utility (Roost, Parting Shot, U-turn, two other useful abilities) actually makes it harder for me to justify. As Melons-N-Soda covered earlier, I'd actually prefer Squack right now because of the greater flexibility, but I wouldn't be too surprised if Zangoose is also proven to be just as effective with its stronger output and other extra quirks. A good, if slightly difficult, pick for teams looking for wallbreakers.

Takes most things regular Sneasel does but better. Base 115 Speed and powerful STABs in Close Combat and Gunk Shot makes it even harder to switch into, and it still gets Toxic Spikes for offensive hazard setting that Sneasel doesn't get. The second thing that comes to mind is the typing resisting Rocks instead of being weak to them. Now, it's more flexible to run items like Choice Band or Eviolite to amp its power or make it bulkier, respectively. It even gets Switcheroo that can throw off switch-ins like Misdreavus, Drakloak, and Tera Ghost Pokemon, respectively. I find this extremely scary and have my eyes peeled on whatever tiering action will be taken on this Pokemon.

Unlike the other three, this isn't as immediately threatening assuming this isn't on rain. It's got the same defensive typing as Skuntank and even has the hazards to back it up (Toxic Spikes and Spikes), and arguably uses moves like taunt and toxic better thanks to Eviolite and its greater speed. Unlike Skuntank, it gets Swords Dance to further amp its cleaning potential and more reliable priority with Aqua Jet. I can see this becoming a serious threat late-game and defensive sets being very annoying towards bulkier teams. I believe this will be a consistent hazard stacker and cool sweeper here.

A better defensive typing, Shell Armor, and better bulk makes this 100% better than regular Sliggoo. Also unlike Sliggoo, Iron Head lacks immunities, making it even more consistent at pulling off late-game sweeps without Haze or other phasing users. Though passive for most of the game, I can definitely see this becoming a threat in endgame scenarios and being very annoying to take down, especially without Pokemon that can hit it hard enough or Knock Off users. Unlike the other Hisui Pokemon, it's a bit more one-dimensional since attempting other sets (like AOA variants) feel like they're much harder to pull off without the right support.

Without Last Respects, I expect it to fall behind to other Basculin formes as it lacks Blue-Striped Basculin's Rock Head form. Eviolite's extra bulk could help in some instances, but Basculin's bulk is already frail in the first place and usually would like all the power it gets. Not a bad addition, though a bit redundant with its other two formes.

Losing Grassy Glide (even if it would've been nerfed) was a huge tragedy, but it still gets Knock Off, U-turn, and Grassy Surge! Unlike PIncurchin who has very little justification for Electric Surge teams, Grassy Surge's extra healing and weakening of Earthquake may allow some extra utility. There's also the fact that Thwackey is much more proactive in gameplay (with the aforementioned tools above) helps matters as well, despite not having niches like Spikes and Recover. Who knows, maybe Grassy Seed teams could emerge like they did for Gen 8? Either way, I'm excited to try out Thwackey.

In short: Excited to try out all of these drops, fearful for Sneasel-Hisui and Qwilfish-Hisui.

 

[Shaneghoul]

The council will be voting to quickban Sneasel-Hisui over the weekend.

 

[Theblobfishman9]

Before Sneasel gets sent to the shadow realm I'll argue against the ban.

Dug is faster then sneasel and can 1 shot the mons with eq. While it can tera variants with intact sashes can hit it 2 times (252 Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Tera Dark Sneasel-Hisui: 147-174 (58.5 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) and KO it and life orb variants can do enough damage that its in range for your remaining scarfer to revenge kill it. (252 Atk Life Orb Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Tera Dark Sneasel-Hisui: 191-226 (76 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) also (252 Atk Life Orb Tera Ground Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Tera Dark Sneasel-Hisui: 255-302 (101.5 - 120.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO)

Sneasel-h runs tera dark often just for indeedee. Its psychic type attacks 1 shot it and tera fairy variants resist the easily predictable tera dark boosted night slash while also outspeeding it. (252 SpA Tera Fairy Indeedee-F Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Tera Dark Sneasel-Hisui: 180-212 (71.7 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) vs (+2 252 Atk Tera Dark Sneasel-Hisui Night Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Indeedee-F: 131-154 (46.6 - 54.8%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO)

While this may look on paper to be an easy matchup, defensive invested missy is bulky enough to survive a tera boosted night slash (252 Atk Tera Dark Sneasel-Hisui Night Slash vs. 216 HP / 220 Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 138-164 (43.8 - 52%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO) and can burn it in return. This effectively removes the mons sweeping potential. It can run tera fire like ive been using to avoid the burn but then you have 0 ways to avoid loosing to dug.

Another bulky mon that can take a hit and para it with either static or twave preventing the mon from sweeping. (252 Atk Tera Dark Sneasel-Hisui Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ampharos: 181-214 (47.1 - 55.7%) -- 77% chance to 2HKO)

additionally most scarfer are able to outspeed this mon and while it does have some bulk with eviolite they can still easily revenge kill this mon in alot of scenarios.

There are also more creative ways to deal with the mon, eq swalot, def rotom fan with twave, def camel, etc.

 

[zoowi]

I would like to add the best check ever to Sneasel (although I still think it needs ban).

Swalot @ Leftovers
Ability: Sticky Hold
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 52 Atk / 204 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Toxic / Thunder Wave
- Protect / Thunder Wave
- Pain Split / Thunder Wave

252 Atk Sneasel-Hisui Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Swalot: 67-79 (16.5 - 19.5%) -- possible 6HKO

Resists both stabs and threatens with an EQ that has just enough power to get the job done, especially if Sneasel triggered defence drops. Catch whatever it switches out into with Toxic (or Thunder Wave). Pain Split/Protect in an attempt to stay healthy and build up poison. As a bonus Sticky Hold prevents Switcheroo from working from choice sets.

 

[Chloe]

Hisuian Sneasel has been banned from SV PU:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/pu-council-updates.3718204/post-9647573

 

[LettuceLeaf07]

After building for the team building comp, I wanted to procrastinate a vr nom and talk about my experience with terrain in the meta. I was considering adding a disclaimer about myself, but I think the phrase 'my experience with terrain' acknowledges my possible inexperience enough.

Electric Terrain

I found Electric and Grass to be the least viable terrains, partly because Thwackey and Pincurchin never did anything, and partly due to a lack of abusers. Pincurchin was cursed with an awful HP stat, not enough attack, and it’s good movepool does not make up for that. I also found that clicking spikes takes up too many terrain turns. Without surge surfer and viable unburden users, there’s also little payoff for electric terrain. I mean, I guess you block Lilligant sleep?

Here's my final Pincurchin set:
Tomato (Pincurchin) (F) @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Electric Surge
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Zing Zap
- Memento
- Liquidation

And here's a set of calcs that disappoint me:
0 Atk Pincurchin Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lycanroc-Midnight: 156-184 (50.1 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Lycanroc-Midnight Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Pincurchin: 156-184 (52 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Lycanroc-Midnight Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 132 Def Pincurchin: 136-162 (45.3 - 54%) -- 43.8% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Lycanroc-Midnight Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pincurchin: 112-133 (37.3 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

I mean, what is this thing supposed to wall with terrain? Yourself? This probably isn't a MU Pincurchin was designed to win, but it's one I want to win, and that's what matters. And yeah, I had no idea what I am doing.

Grassy Terrain

Grassy terrain is similar to Electric in terms of lacking abusers. You can’t afford to run 2 grass types with Grass Pelt Gogoat and Thwackey, as they are very similar as physical grass type attackers. I guess you can run more boots now, due to the free leftovers? Even though, I'm not sure Thwackey is worth running for some leftovers for 5 turns, or at least with my set.

Here's the set I ran:
Sticks (Thwackey) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Grassy Surge
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Wood Hammer
- Acrobatics

Psychic Terrain

This is the best terrain in the tier. Priority is just about as common, if not more common, than scarfers in terms of speed control. Blocking that is nice, but then Indeedee is good on top of that. The best part of Psychic terrain is that you don't need to bend over backwards to build a team with it like the previous two, since you are combining a good mon with a good field effect.

Once again, here is the set I used:
Oh yes (Indeedee-F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dazzling Gleam
- Psychic
- Hyper Voice
- Trick

Misty Terrain

Even with needing to be set manually, this terrain put in more work for me than electric and grass. Blocking status is so nice in a tier with a poison-type in S-tier. Additionally, this can theoretically be combined with Quaxwell for a spinner that doesn't lose to Tspikes. Or you could, I don't know, bounce hazards and run your own Skuntank for tspike removal? Additionally, this blocks sleep powder from Lilligant and Toxic orb from Zangoose, giving you a better matchup against both. I also happened to play a team with like 5 resttalk mons, so that could be making me think this is more useful than it really is. Hattrem is reliable enough at getting in, living at least one hit, setting Terrain, and Hwishing or dying, which is not bad support at all.

Here's my set:
Twilight (Hattrem) @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Misty Terrain
- Psychic
- Mystical Fire/Dazzling Gleam
- Healing Wish

 

[Morge]

With the new VR update I feel like its become clear that there's 2 elephants in the tier right now:

These 2 are what I would consider the most problematic mons in the tier right now and I feel like they're both deserving of a suspect test.


While lilligant might not necessarily be "broken", especially with Sliggoo-H's presence in the tier right now, I don't think that being broken is the only reason to ban a mon and I would definitely consider lilligants presence in the tier to be unhealthy.
Lilligants main flaw is that its tera reliant. Normally I wouldn't consider this an issue since who cares if a mon needs to tera if it teraing is what wins you the game, but lilligants tera dependence means it's always gonna lose to something based on what tera type it chooses. For example, tera electric sets match up poorly into grass types like gogoat while tera fire struggles into fire types like . However, you don't know what tera type its running at team preview and it always has some set to beat everything. The only consistent answer right now IMO is Sliggoo-H, and being forced to run it on every team to not get run over by random lilligants isn't exactly what I'd call healthy, and if lilligant does get a good matchup or your opponent manages to take out your check to their lilligant that you didn't know you needed to preserve because you don't know what set they're running, it can very easily run away with games with little you can do about it. Its incredibly straining on the team builder and frustrating to deal with and I don't think its good for the tier.


There was initially some doubt around charizard when it first dropped due to it losing several valuable tools, namely roost, but charizard has quickly proven the doubters wrong and reclaimed its throne as the king of PU. Charizards combination of speed, power, coverage and versatility is very overwhelming to deal with and it can sometimes feel like you're just completely helpless against it. Fire/Flying is already a great stab combination, and paired with focus blast it feels like nothing can reliably wall this mon. 100 speed is also great by the tiers standards, outspeeding many common threats like basculin and skuntank , and the few faster mons like raichu and dugtrio can't exactly switch into it all that well. And this is all just talking about special sets, physical zard is perfectly viable and can run away with games against opponents expecting a more standard set. If you think zard is hard to outrun at base its nearly impossible at +1 after a dragon dance, and earthquake provides excellent coverage. Zard does have answers, its weak to the common basculin aqua jet and scarf lycanroc can switch in on a flamethrower or hurricane and outspeed and ohko with Stone edge, however none of its answers feel particularly concrete and are susceptible to getting worn down by hazards, meaning zard can just pivot around them and let them get worn down. It's less "cheap" than lilligant and more consistent to deal with but its a very centralising force in the metagame that I believe at least deserves a look at.

Edit: I meant lycanroc stone edge not earthquake oops

 

[Aurist]

Hi all, some thoughts on Defensive Tera Types had randomly occurred to me recently - that some mons like to run certain Tera types like Water to try to maximise neutral damage or minimise super effective damage. I couldn't help but wonder if the math added up to favour the types we would expect. With that in mind, I sought out to develop a "Tera matchup" chart of sorts against the best and most common mons in the tier.

I decided to try to develop 2 type matchup charts for 2 different kinds of output. In both, I assigned a number to each type of matchup:

Matchup	"Neutrality" value	"Resistance" value
Super effective​	2​	2​
Neutral​	1​	1​
Resisted​	0.5​	-1​
Immune​	0​	-2​

Using these numbers, as a complete non-math nerd and knowing nothing about stats I wanted to manifest the following things: Neutral will always be >0 as we are to some extent looking at "damage taken"; "Neutrality" will provide greater weight towards Super effective matchups as that is the main thing being avoided; "Resistance" will scale more evenly between the matchups resulting in a broader spectrum of "damage taken".

With this I selected all pokemon from the S or A tiers of the current PU viability list, summarised their broad coverage into 3 (or 2 for some defensive mons) attacking types and matched them up against each Tera type.

"Neutrality"

"Resistance"​

These numbers are a sum of the 3 matchups presented; in the first row we have Normal so a total of "Fire vs Normal", "Flying vs Normal" and "Fighting vs Normal". In "Neutrality" this produces 1(Neutral)+1(Neutral)+2(Super Effective), producing 4. The same number, 4, is produced in "Resistance" as there are no resistances or immunities present.

With this I averaged the results across all pokemon from S, A+, A and A- tiers and produced a number representing "Neutrality" and "Resistance". I then measured each type against each other and found some interesting results.

I want to preface before I post my results that the scope for this data is obviously limited and flawed - it does not account for many factors including Base Power, Stats, Pokemon Usage, Accuracy or whatever else. This is merely an experiment to get a broad overview of how singular Tera types match up defensively with the tier.

I'm happy to try to expand this to the rest of the viability tiers if there is interest, I limited the scope of this for now due to work load and feeling like a snapshot of S and A tiers was still interesting. I'm also happy to try out different numerical values in the setup if people feel the matchups could be represented better, but I'll want them to be in a similar setup as I'm not gonna screw around with my overall formula and I'm not an excel wizard.

--

So with that said here are my results. I'll first post the "Resistance" results as they have more expected outcomes while "Neutrality" is more at the crux of what we're looking for.

SV PU Tera type matchups - "Resistance"

These are the scores outputted for each type based on the "Resistance" scale, with a lower score representing the broadly best resistance/immunity matchups against the whole tier. The numbers here will trend lower than in "Neutrality" as we are weighting more for "taking less damage" than in that set.

I think it's fair to say the pattern here is broadly expected with higher valued defensive types having the lower score. The types that do worse also trend very much in the high numbers as expected. I'd be interested to hear comments from everybody else on how various of the types did - e.g. Steel wins by a very sizeable margin, which is not so surprising but is offset by the limited Steel types present in the tier.

















SV PU Tera type matchups - "Neutrality"

Once again these numbers are trending higher as we are weighting Super Effective damage higher on the formula as that is the type of damage these types are most wanting to avoid.

We have quite a shift in some of these types, with Steel taking a serious hit from easy 1st into a deep 8th near the middle of the table. Fairy wins out here which is interesting and makes some sense. Ghost is a clear 2nd which is relatively high to me given what feels like a large amount of Dark attacks in the tier. Water, which was my personal favoured type for broader neutrality before this data, is a mere 3rd but alongside its 4th place in "Resistance" cements it as clearly a valuable defensive type overall. Poor Ice in the meantime finishes dead last in both tables but noone is surprised by that.
















--

I'd love to hear what everyone else thinks about these results, if anyone has some changed perspectives on what they want to Tera their defensive pokemon into or if that's broadly remained the same. This obviously isn't a guideline as Tera selection is personalised to the mon using it with Abilities and other factors coming in, but I hope it's at least interesting to you. Also thanks to rien who helped me talk through and rationalise the idea before I went ahead and did it.

For those who want to see the sheet, you can click here. Thanks for reading!

 

[Chloe]

Shifts are here!! This month, Pokemon quick dropped from OU to PU if they were below 1/60th of 4.52% usage in OU due to home's influx of Pokemon. As a result here are the shifts:

+
-

Articuno moved from OU to PU
Calyrex moved from OU to PU
Carbink moved from OU to PU
Dugtrio-Alola moved from OU to PU
Persian-Alola moved from OU to PU
Tauros moved from OU to PU

Whiscash moved from NU to PU

Hattrem moved from PU to NU
Qwilfish-Hisui moved from NFE to NU
Sliggoo-Hisui moved from NFE to NU

-

Personally, I'm scared of Tauros but otherwise seems like a lot of healthy additions!! Excited to see how the new meta develops! Give us your thoughts on these shifts!

 

[Morge]

Quickdrops means a lot of new stuff to play around with, although not as much as I was expecting (You mean to tell me electrode-H went to UU of all places?). Unfortunately we also lost a lot of stuff:


Huh, Ok. Wasn't expecting this to rise. Hattrem was decent imo and one of our few answers to hazards so its kinda annoying to lose but not meta shaking or anything.


Very bulky set up sweeper that I am both very sad and very glad to see go.


Qwillfish-H had established itself as a tier staple but really we were all just waiting for it to rise. Overall probably glad to see it go since it was the best spiker by a mile and spike stack was a playable that did not need any help IMO.

Drops:


Well I guess this is our qwillfish substitute. Whiscash got spikes and stealth rocks in this gen, which paired with a taunt immunity thanks to oblivious makes it a great hazard stack mon. Thats not all it can do, its typing is incredible, its bulk is solid and it gets dragon dance (Although its offenses are rather meager). Very solid mon overall thats for sure.


Oh god please ban this mon. Its ridiculously fast, incredibly powerful with sheer force, has great coverage and is decently bulky to boot. I'm gonna abuse the hell out of this thing while its legal which I doubt will be for long, this should have never dropped to PU.


Articuno lost most of its best defensive tools like defog, toxic and heal bell, but its stats are still kinda nuts by this tiers standards, it still has reliable recovery and greatly benefits from tera letting it shed its awful typing. I still foresee this being a great defensive and offensive mon even if its a little tera reliant.


While a little slower than its kantonian cousin, trading that speed for largely inconsequential bulk, Dugtrio-A makes up for this with its great dual typing, giving it a useful secondary stab and more opportunities to come in despite its poor bulk. The loss in speed does hurt but its still very fast and a great addition to the tier overall.


While its stats aren't great overall and it very unfortunately lost knock off, its great speed tier, pivoting options and great ability in fur coat might make it a decent pivot, and it could potentially do well with nasty plot? Not entirely sure on this mon but it seems ok.

and
ZU is over there

 

[BuilderBe]

Before I begin I just want to say I find it hilarious that we lost hattrem anyways.

Tauros (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Body Slam
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head

Supposedly this thing is like the reincarnation of the devil so I'm gonna try it! I'll come back here ( in like a few days) to say whether it's dodo or if it's lucifer itself bye.

 

[pokeclysm]

Tauros is definitely getting banned faster than a +6 Regieleki, given it has a blazing fast 110 speed for the tier and has Sheer Force Life Orb Body Slams to play with off its decent 100 Attack. That's only about 20% weaker than a Landorus-I Earth Power, which is just horrifying given how lacking in bulk PU is. Its coverage options are great, too; it can ruin steels and rocks with Close Combat and it has several other Sheer Force boosted moves.

Basically, plz ban Tauros.

 

[LettuceLeaf07]

Tauros is definitely getting banned faster than a +6 Regieleki, given it has a blazing fast 110 speed for the tier and has Sheer Force Life Orb Body Slams to play with off its decent 100 Attack. That's only about 20% weaker than a Landorus-I Earth Power, which is just horrifying given how lacking in bulk PU is. Its coverage options are great, too; it can ruin steels and rocks with Close Combat and it has several other Sheer Force boosted moves.

Basically, plz ban Tauros.

I'm not convinced that Tauros is immediate qb-worthy rn. Its best move for Missy is Assurance, and with CB I've found myself not doing enough damage to mons like Quaxwell. Of course, this will probably change over time because it's day 1, but Tauros' speed still makes it difficult to remove, so it may still prove to be banworthy.

On the other hand, I'm excited to see how the meta adapts to Articuno. This thing's stats are insane for the tier, it gets freeze dry for water types, and it can roost off damage. It did lose toxic and defog, and I'm really bad at the game, but I think Articuno may be banworthy down the line.

 

[Theblobfishman9]

With new drops (woooooo) it’s just a matter of time before one of these new mons gets the ban hammer. While I initially thought would be the most overwhelming of the drops turns out is the real issue from this drop.


First I’ll add that I don’t think tauros is ban worthy cuz
1. Tauros wants to run life orb which makes it susceptible to the current hazard stack meta with abysmal hazard removal

2. It struggles with status from missy and a-persian.

Now the real problem from this drop, carbink defenses are extremely tough to break with the current mons at our disposal. Additionally with restalk it’s not limited to boots like a lot of mons are and can easily run lefties to make it even more difficult to break. Iron defense/body press sets are nearly impossible to break defensively and with base 150 spdef, pretty difficult to break for even the best spAtk mons in the tier. Alternatively you can run a cm set on it and wall every spAtk mon and stall out/beat with restalk most physical attack mons(cm Carbink is also really fun to run). The only mon in the tier preventing carbink from being completely outrageous is perr and you have both teraand 5 other mons to remove it. Additionally tricking a scarf on it would prevent its reign of terror but a good player in most cases will recognize the play, making this an unreliable strat to beat it.

*side note if carbink gets removed from the tier tauros might be OP then cuz right now it’s forced to carry iron head just for carbink)

*side note *2 none of these drops help with the tiers golduck problem and I think it’s worth having the discussion on wether or not it should get the axe.

 

[rien]

NEW DROPS


yes this is a day 1 take but this might unironically be the most busted drop of the bunch. 150/150 defenses are unprecedented in pu this gen, it's not an nfe so it can run an actual item (can actually run lefties fairly comfortably), and its defensive typing is incredibly useful in the current meta and requires mons like tauros to run dedicated coverage for it. ironpress is (rightfully) getting the most attention rn but rocks+spikes sets are also great (uninvested body press does a bunch) and i've seen calm mind sets pop off. i'm interested to see how the meta adapts to it but it's on my watchlist.


actually not as stupid as i anticipated it to be. being a glass cannon normal-type that doesn't want to run boots naturally draws comparisons to goose and squawk, but it's quite a bit bulkier (especially on the physical side) and doesn't rely on status to operate. not opting for boots in a hazard meta means that it does get worn down eventually and can be picked off by faster threats. missy still being a top mon in the tier means that it's not as free to spam body slam, and it ends up feeling somewhat balanced. a top threat for sure, but not one i'd consider banworthy for the time being.


i've initially been a bit underwhelmed by articuno at first but i've seen people's opinions and experiences with it vary. running only dual stabs feels somewhat constricting as mons like frosttom and carbink feel comfortable enough to come in basically for free; freeze dry+tera blast+roost+sub/u-turn is probably the best moveset for it. i'm very interested to see ppl come up with optimal tera types for it as well as creative stat spreads enabled by its excellent base stats.


not as big on persian as i thought i would be, defensive sets (taunt, foul play, twave, pshot) feel quite passive in practice and nasty plot sets struggle with setting up (and also just don't hit quite as hard with just one stab type). all persians also suffer from being very frail on the special side which makes them fairly easy to stop with would-be targets like missy. the speed tier is super neat and i definitely think there's potential for utilizing parting shot for frail setup sweepers, at least for nasty plot sets i'd still rather use skunk as it sets up way more easily and is harder to stop.


not much thoughts on it as i haven't used it or seen it enough, tying with raichu and tauros is a bit unfortunate but this is probably better than kanto duggy overall due to the better defensive typing and having an actual ability in tangling hair. i'd probably run the same movesets as regular duggy and forgo the steel stab.


nice ground, can do decently in a lot of matchups. seems like a solid hazards setter. pair it with a grass-type answer and you'll be fine.


not very optimistic for this one, its bulk is nice but it seems like there's a mon out there that bests it as everything it can try to achieve.

WINNERS OF THE TIER SHIFTS


with qwil-h rising to nu, skunk is once again the premier poison/dark multitasker. it is just as good as it was before and i expect usage to ramp back up accordingly.


frosttom is in an extremely good position atm, its excellent boltbeam coverage has been very solid during the last month it takes further advantage of all the not super bulky mons we got in the shift, but especially articuno which is destined to become a lot of people's go-to special wall. feels very hard to not justify running either scarf or sub+np right now.


sliggoo rising is a huge boon for lilli; during the last month offensive sets felt very awkward to use as you could not reliably beat both charizard and sliggoo with a single tera type, but now tera types like rock and electric feel way less constricting to use. expect bulky variants (qd 2 attacks synthesis with max hp max speed) to get used a lot too and possibly even beat your articunos 1v1.


i feel like it went a bit under the radar but i expect to see a resurgence, tera rock bulk up in particular just seems incredibly solid atm against so many of the new drops and losing sliggoo-hisui is absolutely a net positive for it.


i usually don't advocate for webs, especially in boots meta. that being said, it's an extremely effective way of making opposing tauros considerably less threatening (or possibly making your own tauros more threatening) and our shiny new taunter in persian doesn't really want to stay in on either of these and taunt them due to not being able to take bug moves. sliggoo rising also means masq can click qd more freely, although it'll have to reconsider its tera if it wants to have a shot against cuno.

LOSERS OF THE TIER SHIFTS


zard suffers both from the slew of new threats that are faster than it, but especially from the upcoming ubiquity of carbink that leaves it absolutely miserable. it'll probably still be the premier fire in the tier but it's going to need considerably more support to operate from now on.


gabite will keep having a niche as long as fires+electrics remain good in the meta, but carbink just does defensive sets better while largely still checking most of the same mons that gabite does. sd should still be very solid though.


another mon that is largely outclassed by carbink at taking hits from stuff. it'll still have a niche as a wishpasser but overlapping with carbink will make it harder to justify on commom team structures.


it's really not a good time to be a slow (or really just not fast enough, pu's speed level is crazy high atm) and frail breaker, as all of these struggle to take hits from the myriad of faster threats. the latter three also really suffer from carbink's presence and will be unable to make meaningful progress against unless they opt for tera steel.

 

[Perla]

I've never thought I could say it, but I think that Carbink should be the first one to go. I believe it has even higher priority than Tauros



Its defensive stats are so good and this makes it a valuable "double dancer" (IronD and Rock Polish) which, unlike Stonjourner, it doesn't die immediately to a special move. Tbh you don't even need to raise your speed as you have the tools to increase your bulk on both sides (with Calm Mind for the special defense) and tank lots of hits. While Leftovers elongate its longevity even more, I tried to pair it with Thwackey and it still maintains its nuisance: passive recovery is welcomed, the terrain decreases the damage of one of its weaknesses, with a Grassy Seed you still have over 600 defense so you don't even need Iron Defense, consequently you're free to run Body Press, Calm Mind, a special move (Moonblast or Power Gem) and even Rest as you can survive attacks for three turns with enough boosts. Moreover, if you have Tspikes on the field (in a tier with abysmal hazard removal), you might still accomplish something while you're sleeping, as poison keeps doing its job. What pushes this thing over the edge is, with no surprise, Tera: thanks to this mechanic you can survive from the attacks of the checks that are supposed to kill it and actually you might get rid of the opponent's "counter". Tera ghost is effective because you need a Dark type to deal with it and generally you wouldn't keep a Houndoom, a Skuntank or a Honchkrow to deal with a Carbink given their natural type disadvantage. Moreover this mons can even beat them sometimes. It has also some valuable additional traits like Clear Body which for example prevents defense drops from Grav Apple or blocks Parting Shot entirely.
This thing gives me Zamazenta-Crowned vibes if I have to be completely honest.

Last but not least: this thing can still be an hazard lead with rocks and spikes.

And you can even adapt your type for Weakness Policy shenanigans imho.

Of course setting up with this mon makes you susceptible to crits and freezes, but in any case I don't think that it's wise to include "being lucky" among your counterplays.

A couple replays:

Replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9pu-1896025720-t6lk9gjldzev7jwduhvjrwvtoyx31sjpw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9pu-1896088961-fvr4j6dxjs9iu5g1xnhymsegav0o20dpw

 

[cyrtie]

Funny how Carbink actually has higher defensive stats then Zamazenta-C so with tera fighting (provided zam doesnt also tera fighting) carbink actually has a harder hitting body press

 

[TheTraininator]

ZU is over there

Well this aged like milk huh