Announcement National Dex Doubles Player Surveys

Smudge · Aug 3, 2023

The results of our first survey are here!

We received 32 responses, and I'd like to thank everyone who responded.

First off, enjoyment:

Forms response chart. Question title: How much do you enjoy NDDOU?. Number of responses: 32 responses.

Averaging 4.125 on a scale of 5, most people enjoy this tier quite a lot, which is excellent to see! Not much to say here, I'm glad this is the case as we have put a lot of work into it.

Forms response chart. Question title: How balanced/stable do you think NDDOU is? (i.e. how often does the better player win?). Number of responses: 32 responses.

Regarding balance, it scored a bit worse at 3.78. For a new format that's only a few months old, not bad. There was a decent correlation between people who voted lower on the scale and people who believed Darkrai is an issue. Which brings us to...

Forms response chart. Question title: How do you feel about Darkrai in NDDOU?. Number of responses: 32 responses.

The significant majority of people who had an opinion on Darkrai believed it should be voted on or is straight up broken.

Forms response chart. Question title: If tiering action is taken, would you prefer Darkrai be banned or only Dark Void?. Number of responses: 32 responses.

The overwhelming majority of responses wished for us to take action on Dark Void over Darkrai.

The council has indeed taken action, as we also believed it to be an issue, and the result is... a Dark Void ban!

While not being the most reliable, it was restrictive on building & the game state, and was uncompetitive and unhealthy for the metagame.

Dark Void is basically impossible to switch in to reliably, and even sleep checks such as Tapu Fini's Misty Terrain aren't the most reliable as the presence of many terrain setters can make it difficult to maintain terrain control.

	big pichu	smudgerox	eragon11145	qsns	Spurrific	YoBuddy	zee
Dark Void	ban	ban	ban	ban	ban	ban	~

It was by far the most contentious issue on this survey.

None of the following responses were enough to make us take action, but here are the results. For the time being we plan to monitor public opinion and the way the meta shapes up during the Doubles Derby, as the meta needs more time for development.

Forms response chart. Question title: How do you feel about Jirachi in NDDOU?. Number of responses: 32 responses.

Forms response chart. Question title: How do you feel about Mega Salamence in NDDOU?. Number of responses: 32 responses.

Forms response chart. Question title: How do you feel about Shadow Tag in NDDOU?. Number of responses: 32 responses.

Forms response chart. Question title: How do you feel about Basculegion in NDDOU?. Number of responses: 32 responses.

Forms response chart. Question title: How do you feel about Ursaluna in NDDOU?. Number of responses: 32 responses.

Forms response chart. Question title: How do you feel about Flutter Mane in NDDOU?. Number of responses: 32 responses.

Forms response chart. Question title: How did you feel about Annihilape in NDDOU?. Number of responses: 32 responses.

Forms response chart. Question title: How did you feel about Genesect in NDDOU?. Number of responses: 32 responses.

We may consider suspect tests at a later date, and only after the conclusion of the aforementioned Doubles Derby, but we are not planning any currently.

If you've read this far, thank you! I also have some exciting news that was shared on the Discord, but not here.

Our ladder reached an incredible 38,283 games last month! Thank you again to everyone who's been playing the tier, I never expected this level of engagement.

Here are the usage stats for each ELO bracket:
The most interesting ones are probably Unweighted and 1760.

Unweighted
1500
1630
1760

Smudge · Nov 1, 2023

Hey everyone! We recently conducted our second player survey, and the results are in! Thanks to the 33 people who responded. Thank you to YoBuddy who created this version of the survey!

Forms response chart. Question title: How much do you enjoy National Dex Doubles OU?. Number of responses: 33 responses.

First up: Enjoyment scored an average of 8.7, scoring higher than the last survey at a converted 8.25. This is great to see, not much more to say.

Forms response chart. Question title: How balanced/stable do you feel the NDDOU metagame is (ie. How often do you feel the better player wins?). Number of responses: 33 responses.

Balance clocked in at 7.3, compared to a previous 7.56. This is a marked but not severe decrease, and means we still have work to do, especially given that the first result factored in Dark Void. As we'll get to later though, there is not currently a consensus on what the unbalanced elements are. This is still not bad for a newly developed metagame, however.

Now, on to the individual Pokemon section, which is graded on a scale of 1-5, where 1 is not broken and 5 is very broken. These are not comparable with previous results, as we're trying a new metric, but you may review the prior results in the above post.

Forms response chart. Question title: How do you feel about Urshifu-Rapid Strike in the NDDOU metagame?. Number of responses: 33 responses.

Urshifu-Rapid-Strike scored an average of 3.12. While there is often vocal support for a suspect test, there's also a non-insignificant amount of people who are indifferent. We'd like to hear more community feedback on a potential suspect test in the future.

Forms response chart. Question title: How do you feel about Flutter Mane in the NDDOU metagame?. Number of responses: 33 responses.

Flutter Mane scored a rather low 2.3, indicating that most people feel it's fine.

Forms response chart. Question title: How do you feel about Mega Salamence in the NDDOU metagame?. Number of responses: 33 responses.

Mega Salamence scored a slightly higher 2.39, also indicating that most people find it to be a relatively balanced presence.

Forms response chart. Question title: How do you feel about Zamazenta-Hero in the NDDOU metagame?. Number of responses: 33 responses.

Zamazenta-H scored 2.69, despite being relatively contentious presence in the metagame, with many people calling for a suspect and others being absolutely certain it's not broken. A common complaint is that it simply has too many stats and a wide support movepool, however it's somewhat kept in check by Mega Salamence and often cannot afford to run Heavy Slam to deal with Flutter Mane that it otherwise outspeeds.

Forms response chart. Question title: How do you feel about Chien-Pao in the NDDOU metagame?. Number of responses: 33 responses.

Chien-Pao scored 2.36, in line with other mons who scored similarly. Checking some threats in the tier, particularly Mega Salamence, is perhaps a reason that people would consider it a healthy presence. Notably, Chien-Pao recieved zero votes of a 5 rating.

Forms response chart. Question title: How do you feel about Jirachi in the NDDOU metagame?. Number of responses: 32 responses.

Jirachi is another contentious mon, being the premier redirector and setup enabler of the tier, clocking in at 2.81. The prevailing opinion among most players and council is that Jirachi is not broken on its own, and may only be problematic due to the threats it helps enable, which would explain the lower score.

Forms response chart. Question title: How do you feel about Marshadow in the NDDOU metagame?. Number of responses: 33 responses.

Marshadow scored a 2.78, with only 1 vote of a 5 rating, but 4 received a plurality of votes. This is definitely something to keep an eye on for the future with any metagame shifts or new additions.

Forms response chart. Question title: How do you feel about Kingambit in the NDDOU metagame?. Number of responses: 33 responses.

Kingambit came in at the lowest score of 1.96. While being quite strong stat wise, and ranked at tier 2, it does not benefit from a presence of Intimidate or other stat drops that would activate Defiant nearly as much in this metagame, which may contribute to people not feeling like it's broken.

Forms response chart. Question title: How do you feel about Eevee/Extreme Evoboost in the NDDOU metagame?. Number of responses: 33 responses.

Eevee/Evoboost is in an interesting spot - despite scoring relatively low, it received the highest share of 5 votes next to Zygarde. It's more polarized than any other vote, but 20/33 people (1 and 2 voters) don't really feel like it's an issue at all. Perhaps the presence of Marshadow, and Eevee being rather weak on its own contributes to "eeveepass" not being so easy to pull off? Or perhaps it's the lack of a particularly strong abuser? We'll see if there are more developments!

Forms response chart. Question title: How do you feel about Zygarde in the NDDOU metagame?. Number of responses: 33 responses.

Zygarde is once again the top issue in the metagame at 3.57, the highest in this survey. It was our first suspect, and it easily avoided getting banned by a relatively large margin, failing to reach even a simple majority at 44%, let alone anywhere close to the needed 60% supermajority.

Forms response chart. Question title: Has your opinion on Zygarde changed since the Zygarde suspect test?. Number of responses: 33 responses.

Opinions on Zygarde have largely not changed, with nearly 80% of people having the same opinion as before, and more respondents thinking it's less broken than more broken.

Forms response chart. Question title: How do you feel about Terastallization in NDDOU?. Number of responses: 33 responses.

Terastallization came in at a modest 2.45, with very few people highly rating it in comparison to people who think it's not an issue in the slightest. We'll keep an eye on it with the upcoming new tera type which may change the entire dynamic of the mechanic.

Forms response chart. Question title: If there was to be tiering action on Terastallization what outcomes would you prefer?. Number of responses: 33 responses.

If action is taken in the future, people strongly prefer Open Tera Type than a complete ban in a roughly 75-25 ratio, however this may be reevaluated at a later date if suspecting tera becomes necessary.

In conclusion, at this time we do not feel any suspects are necessary, as we feel that support for any ban is lacking even in comparison to the failed Zygarde ban suspect. Given that the second DLC is most likely a month away, we're waiting until then to make any changes.

Smudge · Feb 15, 2024

The results of the third player survey are in!

Forms response chart. Question title: How much do you enjoy National Dex Doubles OU?. Number of responses: 30 responses.

Enjoyment scored a 7.9, lower than the previous two results, but not too far off.

Balancing scored roughly 7.0, the lowest we've seen in a survey so far, but still within a similar range of the previous two. Despite that, this is rather concerning, given the metagame conditions of the previous two surveys.

Forms response chart. Question title: How has your enjoyment of the tier changed since the result of the Coaching ban?. Number of responses: 30 responses.

Despite the two scores above, respondents enjoy the metagame just as much, or more as a result of the coaching ban, which doesn't seem to quite track with the first result. Either way, we're happy to see this.

Forms response chart. Question title: How do you feel about Urshifu-Rapid Strike in the NDDOU metagame?. Number of responses: 30 responses.

Now, for the elephant in the room. Anyone familiar with the metagame knows Urshifu-R has been one of the premier threats of the metagame throughout the history of the format, but particularly in the post-Coaching world, it's been particularly good. Urshifu-R scored a 3.83, by far the highest result on this particular survey and much higher than any other survey subject, even Zygarde. We'll have news on this soon.

Forms response chart. Question title: How do you feel about Mega Metagross in the NDDOU metagame?. Number of responses: 30 responses.

Mega Metagross recieved a range of responses, scoring a 2.7, but it's certainly something to keep an eye on for the future, as its new movepool additions in the DLC in Heavy Slam and Psychic Fangs gave it a ton of extra power. A few bans could easily make this overbearing, if it's not already. Some people have voiced their opinion that it is.

Forms response chart. Question title: How do you feel about Flutter Mane in the NDDOU metagame?. Number of responses: 29 responses.

The ever-present Flutter Mane clocked in at 2.58, slightly higher than the last poll but not by much. Notably, the response spread is somewhat similar across the last two surveys, with a slight uptick on the upper end of the scale in comparison. Public opinion on this mon in all Doubles tiers continues to shift, and we'll monitor it as always.

Forms response chart. Question title: How do you feel about Marshadow in the NDDOU metagame?. Number of responses: 29 responses.

Marshadow's score decreased from 2.78 to 2.34, marking a moderate decrease in score, while the actual spread in votes changed quite significantly between polls. The plurality of votes (11) was in the 4 range last time, however this time the plurality of votes (12) ranked it at a 2, and once again only one person ranked it at a 5.

Forms response chart. Question title: How do you feel about Zamazenta-Hero in the NDDOU metagame?. Number of responses: 29 responses.

At 1.98, Zama-Hero is largely not found to be too much of a concern anymore, even with its Howl sets replacing the coaching ones. No longer quite the supportive behemoth it once was, Zama can afford to be a more selfish attacker, so we'll see where this change takes it.

Forms response chart. Question title: How do you feel about Zygarde in the NDDOU metagame?. Number of responses: 29 responses.

Always a contentious mon, Zygarde has seen a rather large dropoff in score, down more than an entire point with a very different spread. No longer able to increase its bulk with a partners coaching, it's not quite the behemoth it once was but is still posting respectable usage rates in the current Swiss tour and a solid winrate. However, it's much more in line with the current threat level of other things in the tier now, leading to a similar rating in comparison at 2.48.

Forms response chart. Question title: How do you feel about Deoxys-A in the NDDOU metagame?. Number of responses: 29 responses.

Returning to our surveys after not being present in the last one, Deoxys-A now has access to Expanding Force via the latest DLC. While it hasn't seen a ton of usage in the current tour, we were interested in the playerbase's perspective on it. It rated at 2.86, which may indicate that it's something to keep an eye on in the future.

Forms response chart. Question title: How do you feel about Rillaboom in the NDDOU metagame?. Number of responses: 30 responses.

Various people across the doubles community have expressed frustration with high usage "Glue Mons" warping the tiers they exist in, so we also added Rillaboom to this survey to get a feel for the playerbase's thoughts on its balance. However, it scored 1.57, the lowest of all things surveyed so far, indicating that the vast majority people feel it's basically completely healthy here.

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In the extra responses section, a few people mentioned Tera, Kingambit, and Jirachi, which we've surveyed before.

It was also requested that we update the samples, and we did so.

We do not plan on testing down any DUbers at this time.

Thank you everyone for your responses!

Smudge · Apr 30, 2024

The fourth survey is open, please fill it out with your thoughts on the metagame:

https://www.smogon.com/forums/form/national-dex-doubles-tiering-survey-may.69/select

This time, the survey is available in both English and Chinese, and is hosted on the forums to make it more accessible to more players. Thank you to the ND Chinese Translation team for their help with this!

The survey will close in about a week on May 6th at 11:59 PM GMT -4.

Smudge · 2024-05-08T09:56:21-0400

And here are the results, totaling 41 valid responses. A few people left a question unanswered here or there, so some totals may not be the whole number of participants. Thanks to everyone who responded!

On a scale of 1 to 10, how enjoyable do you find the current metagame? | 从1到10，你有多喜欢当下的环境

Average: 6.64
Enjoyment continues to take a slide, reaching its lowest point yet. This is most likely due to a combination of there being multiple metagame changes due to various tiering actions and a number of unresolved issues.

Has your enjoyment of the tier (increased, decreased, or remained the same) since Urshifu-Rapid-Strike was quickbanned? | 武道熊师-连击流被quickban之后你对环境有什么改观吗？更喜欢/不喜欢/没有区别？
Has your enjoyment of the tier (increased, decreased, or remained the same) since Mega Metagross was banned? | 超级巨金怪被ban之后你对环境有什么改观吗？更喜欢/不喜欢/没有区别？

Enjoyment increased slightly on average since the quickban of Urshifu-R, but has majorly increased across the board after the ban of Mega Metagross, which is great to see.

Do you feel like quickbanning Urshifu-Rapid-Strike was the correct decision_.png

Many more respondents felt that it was the correct decision to quickban Urshifu-R rather than not, but not quite the majority.

On a scale of 1 to 10, how balanced and competitive do you find the current metagame? (i.e. the better player wins more often) | 从1到10，你觉得当前的环境有多平衡（考验技术而非运气等其他因素）？

Average: 6.3
On the topic of balance or competitiveness, it has also taken a dip, down .7 from the last result.

Now, on to the Pokemon section:

On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being no action and 10 being immediate tiering action, how do you feel about Zamazenta? | 1到10分，1是没必要采取行动，10是应该立刻进行分级调整，你觉得藏玛然特怎么样？

Average: 7.47
Zamazenta is clearly the biggest issue in the tier for many people, with a plurality of votes ranking it at the maximum possible score. Unsurprisingly, many people who ranked enjoyment and balance low also ranked Zamazenta with a high score.

On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being no action and 10 being immediate tiering action, how do you feel about Marshadow? | 1到10分，1是没必要采取行动，10是应该立刻进行分级调整，你觉得玛夏多怎么样？

Average: 6.0
Marshadow averaged a decently high average. We'll keep an eye on this, and monitor how public opinion changes, given that the voting spread is a bit polarized but weighed towards the higher end.

On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being no action and 10 being immediate tiering action, how do you feel about Zygarde? | 1到10分，1是没必要采取行动，10是应该立刻进行分级调整，你觉得基格尔德怎么样？

Average: 4.9
Zygarde is still moderately controversial A number of players believe that it's kept in check by the existence of Zamazenta, and a ban of it could radically change the perspective on this mon.

On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being no action and 10 being immediate tiering action, how do you feel about Flutter Mane? | 1到10分，1是没必要采取行动，10是应该立刻进行分级调整，你觉得振翼发怎么样？

Average: 3.75
Flutter Mane is rather uncontroversial at the moment, with most players finding it not problematic at all or only moderately so, with very few high ranking scores.

On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being no action and 10 being immediate tiering action, how do you feel about Deoxys-Attack? | 1到10分，1是没必要采取行动，10是应该立刻进行分级调整，你觉得代欧奇希斯-攻击形态怎么样？

Average: 5.15
Deoxys-A popularity picked up rather significantly during the ladder tour and even moreso during the Mega Metagross suspect test.
Despite its frailty, it's still one of the most powerful Pokemon in the tier, and has multiple options for Psychic Terrain partners, whether it be in the offensive or support department.

On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being no action and 10 being immediate tiering action, how do you feel about Jirachi? | 1到10分，1是没必要采取行动，10是应该立刻进行分级调整，你觉得基拉祈怎么样？

Average: 4.1
Jirachi is one of the best support Pokemon in the tier, enabling many powerful setup options, and fully customizable to be the perfect redirector and supportive option for a team with Terastallization. Despite this, most players are not too concerned about it at the moment with most votes being 5 or less.

On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being no action and 10 being immediate tiering action, how do you feel about Terastalization? | 1到10分，1是没必要采取行动，10是应该立刻进行分级调整，你觉得太晶化怎么样

Average: 3.65
More than half of respondents do not consider Terastallization an issue. Not much to say here.

As for other things not on the survey:

Chien-Pao: 2 Mentions
Unban Commander: 1 Mention
Tapu Fini: 1 Mention

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Bonus extra vote spread graph:

On a scale from 1 to 10, how problematic do you find this aspect of the metagame_ (1 for lowes...png

That's all for now, we'll have news regarding the direction the tier is taking in response to this survey soon.

Announcement National Dex Doubles Player Surveys

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