Announcement Gen 9 S/V National Dex UU Metagame Discussion

[Danbear02]

Time for metagame thoughts! It's been a while since I've posted, so I want to talk about all the broken/interesting stuff thats popped up lately.


https://pokepast.es/995d6908af59b1d4

First lets talk about the Frog. Greninja is a great mon to have in the tier: Speed Control, a good offensive spiker ( in shambles), and a great tool for and against Offense. This thing just threatens so much while outspeeding everything. Notably, Greninja has the worst 4MSS syndrome I've ever seen on a mon in our tier. It wants Water and Dark coverage for and , Grass or Poison coverage for and , and Ice coverage to OHKO and . It also really wants Spikes and U-turn for utility. With different moveslot choices your frog is walled by different mons, but honestly just 4 Attacks Choice Specs might be the most broken set. Pivot Spikes is good, but Specs is just so immediately threatening that I'm not sure you need anything else. It's a bit too early to determine if Greninja is too much for the tier, but I'd keep an eye out for it. Also shout out to aiwla to pointing out that AV is a great Greninja check.


https://pokepast.es/cdb0296de291a0ae

This thing has been good for a while. Thundy is maybe the most insane Stall and Balance-breaker we have right now. doesn't really handle Nasty Plot as +2 Pummeling almost just OHKOs, and nothing else on Stall wants to come close to it except Spdef . Typical Balance cores like Spdef and a ground like or are also terrified of this thing. Pivot sets also just Volt Switch or U-turn on everything and can super easily chip down checks like and . Building defensively for Thundy is kind of a nightmare. Not sure that it makes it broken, but it is very, very good.


https://pokepast.es/51b32ca77c27e5b3

Hands is the trades master. This thing is just so ridiculously tanky, it can live hits it definitely shouldn't like Luster Purge. Generally you just need to outspeed and the rest of your EVs can be put into bulk or Attack. SD is definitely the better set, but Choice Band completely obliterates stuff like , , or thinking it can safely switch into SD. Hands can fit on Offense, Balance, Fat, pretty much wherever you want and it will always perform.


https://pokepast.es/42dcc17bc49d3a55

I don't know why we didn't ban this, but now with gone () Tspike Moth has gotten much better. There aren't many good Poisons right now to absorb, and our defoggers don't want to get near this thing (and also they don't really exist). Tspike + U-turn is almost impossible to fit, but being able to Poison and is pretty huge. Morning Sun/Tspike also is a really splashable Stall-breaker while being a good offensive presence. Booster Moth is fine and is getting better with Offense getting better, but is still only really usable on HO.



This thing is also very, very good. It generally only has one set, being Luster Purge + Flip Turn + Roost + Draco/Aura, but it does its job very well. Being one of the best offensive checks for , , AND , the utility this brings to Offense while being a great wallbreaker cannot be understated. Use this thing more.


A few other metagame thoughts. With the prevalence of these offensive threats, Stall isn't great right now. There are plenty of splashable breakers to use, so you shouldn't have an issue with a good team breaking Stall. The other big thing is that there are really no good Defoggers at the moment. is fine but hates getting Knocked and can't stay alive forever, and the same can be said of . Right now I think Offense is definitely the best playstyle, and we may see more Boots spam teams and Hazard Stack cropping up in the future.

All this being said, I like where the meta is at right now. I would keep an eye on Greninja, Thundurus-T, Iron Hands, and Iron Moth to see how they develop into this new meta. And if NDOU could graciously give us Moltres back, I would greatly appreciate that.

 

[Pubo]

Our Blue Friend got banned, so i would like to discuss about which Pokemon really likes this result!



Both lost their best and most splashable revenge killer / check and will continue to wreak havoc the tier for a while. Nasty Plot Thundurus-T have 1 really good check (Mega Latias) and forces some niche options like SpD Clefable (bad) or Skeledirge (solid, but you can't really fit Dirge everywhere) to be used. Iron Hands continues to do the same: it clicks SD, lives stuff that it definitely shouldn't be able to, and recover its HP back with Drain Punch. Choice Band sets are crazy powerful and if you don't have Mega Venusaur or Buzzwole on your team..... .



Hippowdon has always been overshadowed by Ting-Lu, but it got even worse once Luster Purge Latios released, making teams usually prefer another SpD Ground-type with immunity to Luster Purge. Skarmory has good tools, but with Latios and Alakazam running around, Celesteela became a much more popular choice. Unfortunately, i don't see Skarmory and Hippo shining any time soon, unless a certain Rock drops next month....


Hydreigon struggled as a wallbreaker since Latios got really similar results without needing to lock itself with Choice Specs or lost a turn with setup, had much better Speed tier AND could break past Fairy-types with the sheer power of Luster Purge. I don't see offensive variants getting more usage, but Choice Scarf can be an OK revenge killer with the right moveslot and its typing is good against Greninja, but Hydreigon is not really doing much at this moment. (good against slower teams? but why not just click buttons with Thundy anyways...)



Well it happens every generation, Latios gets banned and people remember about the existence of Latias. Unfortunately, she can't really replicate Latios's power, making Specs or Life Orb sets not worthy, but i think Calm Mind Z can be explored and have some potential. Something like CM / Sphere / Mystical Fire / Roost OR Psyshock could maybe surprise Mega Tyranitar and Steel-types? Probably a bit matchup fishy, but it could work!

Calm Mind

Latias (F) @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Aura Sphere
- Mystical Fire
- Roost / Psyshock

 

[Lupla]

Shifts are Out! Is it sock eating time?
Full Link in here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/usage-based-tier-update-for-april-2024.3740273/#post-10056703

National Dex OU (1630 stats)

Combined usage for National Dex OU (1630 stats)
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Percent |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| 1    | Landorus-Therian   | 23.475% |
| 2    | Raging Bolt        | 13.853% |
| 3    | Tapu Koko          | 12.931% |
| 4    | Tapu Lele          | 12.880% |
| 5    | Ferrothorn         | 12.142% |
| 6    | Urshifu-Rapid-Strike | 11.764% |
| 7    | Alomomola          | 11.620% |
| 8    | Dragonite          | 11.274% |
| 9    | Great Tusk         | 10.893% |
| 10   | Heatran            | 10.682% |
| 11   | Gliscor            | 10.504% |
| 12   | Darkrai            | 10.206% |
| 13   | Scizor-Mega        | 10.008% |
| 14   | Corviknight        |  9.660% |
| 15   | Zamazenta          |  9.397% |
| 16   | Ogerpon-Wellspring |  9.349% |
| 17   | Iron Crown         |  9.161% |
| 18   | Slowking-Galar     |  8.747% |
| 19   | Garchomp           |  8.327% |
| 20   | Iron Valiant       |  8.324% |
| 21   | Iron Treads        |  8.164% |
| 22   | Zapdos             |  7.639% |
| 23   | Garganacl          |  7.429% |
| 24   | Moltres            |  7.383% |
| 25   | Volcarona          |  7.246% |
| 26   | Glimmora           |  7.053% |
| 27   | Rillaboom          |  6.946% |
| 28   | Clodsire           |  6.943% |
| 29   | Hatterene          |  6.767% |
| 30   | Kyurem             |  6.672% |
| 31   | Gouging Fire       |  6.566% |
| 32   | Banette-Mega       |  6.188% |
| 33   | Charizard-Mega-Y   |  6.178% |
| 34   | Lopunny-Mega       |  6.120% |
| 35   | Hoopa-Unbound      |  5.751% |
| 36   | Samurott-Hisui     |  5.736% |
| 37   | Serperior          |  5.660% |
| 38   | Diancie-Mega       |  5.633% |
| 39   | Toxapex            |  5.485% |
| 40   | Ceruledge          |  5.409% |
| 41   | Pelipper           |  5.399% |
| 42   | Archaludon         |  5.118% |
| 43   | Kartana            |  4.974% |
| 44   | Ursaluna           |  4.933% |
| 45   | Mawile-Mega        |  4.628% |
| 46   | Iron Boulder       |  4.442% |
| 47   | Medicham-Mega      |  4.433% |
| 48   | Swampert-Mega      |  4.216% |
| 49   | Slowbro            |  3.967% |
| 50   | Kommo-o            |  3.909% |
| 51   | Dondozo            |  3.840% |
| 52   | Greninja           |  3.693% |
| 53   | Aegislash          |  3.574% |
| 54   | Tyranitar          |  3.547% |
| 55   | Hawlucha           |  3.457% |
| 56   | Tornadus-Therian   |  3.408% |
| 57   | Tapu Fini          |  3.352% |
| 58   | Excadrill          |  3.242% |
| 59   | Skeledirge         |  3.191% |
| 60   | Ting-Lu            |  3.010% |
| 61   | Ribombee           |  2.995% |
| 62   | Gyarados-Mega      |  2.898% |
| 63   | Tyranitar-Mega     |  2.813% |
| 64   | Chansey            |  2.753% |
| 65   | Blissey            |  2.657% |
| 66   | Grimmsnarl         |  2.643% |
| 67   | Victini            |  2.594% |
| 68   | Torkoal            |  2.537% |
| 69   | Sableye-Mega       |  2.516% |
| 70   | Meowscarada        |  2.474% |
| 71   | Rotom-Wash         |  2.369% |
| 72   | Charizard-Mega-X   |  2.357% |
| 73   | Weavile            |  2.339% |
| 74   | Sinistcha          |  2.302% |
| 75   | Barraskewda        |  2.280% |
| 76   | Clefable           |  2.279% |
| 77   | Iron Moth          |  2.212% |
| 78   | Ninetales-Alola    |  2.138% |
| 79   | Venusaur-Mega      |  2.064% |
| 80   | Pinsir-Mega        |  1.962% |
| 81   | Celesteela         |  1.850% |
| 82   | Cresselia          |  1.794% |
| 83   | Cinderace          |  1.778% |
| 84   | Blaziken           |  1.760% |
| 85   | Magnezone          |  1.686% |
| 86   | Gardevoir-Mega     |  1.680% |
| 87   | Jirachi            |  1.619% |
| 88   | Skarmory           |  1.588% |
| 89   | Latios             |  1.535% |
| 90   | Bisharp            |  1.513% |
| 91   | Ogerpon-Cornerstone |  1.472% |
| 92   | Goodra-Hisui       |  1.442% |
| 93   | Latias-Mega        |  1.407% |
| 94   | Mew                |  1.380% |
| 95   | Hydreigon          |  1.335% |
| 96   | Volcanion          |  1.299% |
| 97   | Xurkitree          |  1.234% |
| 98   | Pecharunt          |  1.223% |
| 99   | Iron Hands         |  1.186% |
| 100  | Hydrapple          |  1.115% |
| 101  | Latios-Mega        |  1.104% |
| 102  | Ditto              |  1.034% |
| 103  | Beedrill-Mega      |  1.032% |
| 104  | Gyarados           |  1.028% |
| 105  | Blacephalon        |  1.027% |
| 106  | Garchomp-Mega      |  1.017% |
| 107  | Venusaur           |  1.010% |
| 108  | Lilligant-Hisui    |  0.997% |
| 109  | Kleavor            |  0.996% |
| 110  | Araquanid          |  0.954% |
| 111  | Arcanine-Hisui     |  0.940% |
| 112  | Nidoking           |  0.938% |
| 113  | Marowak-Alola      |  0.918% |
| 114  | Aggron-Mega        |  0.884% |
| 115  | Porygon2           |  0.872% |
| 116  | Thundurus-Therian  |  0.869% |
| 117  | Reuniclus          |  0.867% |
| 118  | Stakataka          |  0.851% |
| 119  | Salamence          |  0.842% |
| 120  | Kingdra            |  0.841% |
| 121  | Manaphy            |  0.837% |
| 122  | Tangrowth          |  0.801% |
| 123  | Aerodactyl-Mega    |  0.791% |
| 124  | Zapdos-Galar       |  0.774% |
| 125  | Togekiss           |  0.770% |
| 126  | Mandibuzz          |  0.757% |
| 127  | Zoroark-Hisui      |  0.751% |
| 128  | Mimikyu            |  0.747% |
| 129  | Hippowdon          |  0.744% |
| 130  | Keldeo             |  0.739% |
| 131  | Altaria-Mega       |  0.717% |
| 132  | Tapu Bulu          |  0.709% |
| 133  | Umbreon            |  0.704% |
| 134  | Lokix              |  0.698% |
| 135  | Slowking           |  0.695% |
| 136  | Enamorus           |  0.682% |
| 137  | Gallade-Mega       |  0.666% |
| 138  | Ogerpon            |  0.652% |
| 139  | Buzzwole           |  0.646% |
| 140  | Porygon-Z          |  0.639% |
| 141  | Haxorus            |  0.635% |
| 142  | Zeraora            |  0.634% |
| 143  | Swampert           |  0.618% |
| 144  | Gengar             |  0.610% |
| 145  | Suicune            |  0.604% |
| 146  | Scizor             |  0.604% |
| 147  | Muk-Alola          |  0.603% |
| 148  | Breloom            |  0.602% |
| 149  | Primarina          |  0.592% |
| 150  | Alakazam           |  0.584% |
| 151  | Sceptile-Mega      |  0.582% |
| 152  | Empoleon           |  0.580% |
| 153  | Eiscue             |  0.579% |
| 154  | Latias             |  0.549% |
| 155  | Nihilego           |  0.549% |
| 156  | Shuckle            |  0.545% |
| 157  | Armarouge          |  0.545% |
| 158  | Metagross          |  0.539% |
| 159  | Heracross-Mega     |  0.537% |
| 160  | Azumarill          |  0.535% |
| 161  | Manectric-Mega     |  0.530% |
| 162  | Gallade            |  0.515% |
| 163  | Sandy Shocks       |  0.512% |
| 164  | Moltres-Galar      |  0.504% |
| 165  | Weezing-Galar      |  0.502% |
| 166  | Dracozolt          |  0.497% |
| 167  | Galvantula         |  0.496% |
| 168  | Amoonguss          |  0.489% |
| 169  | Slowbro-Mega       |  0.486% |
| 170  | Necrozma           |  0.478% |
| 171  | Polteageist        |  0.465% |
| 172  | Sylveon            |  0.431% |
| 173  | Mamoswine          |  0.413% |
| 174  | Diggersby          |  0.402% |
| 175  | Pyukumuku          |  0.398% |
| 176  | Cloyster           |  0.393% |
| 177  | Snorlax            |  0.380% |
| 178  | Absol-Mega         |  0.377% |
| 179  | Entei              |  0.372% |
| 180  | Gastrodon          |  0.369% |
| 181  | Quaquaval          |  0.366% |
| 182  | Thundurus          |  0.360% |
| 183  | Klefki             |  0.349% |
| 184  | Mantine            |  0.349% |
| 185  | Camerupt-Mega      |  0.332% |
| 186  | Chandelure         |  0.325% |
| 187  | Abomasnow-Mega     |  0.325% |
| 188  | Raikou             |  0.325% |
| 189  | Milotic            |  0.323% |
| 190  | Goodra             |  0.320% |
| 191  | Swellow            |  0.318% |
| 192  | Pidgeot-Mega       |  0.315% |
| 193  | Arctozolt          |  0.312% |
| 194  | Incineroar         |  0.308% |
| 195  | Deoxys-Defense     |  0.305% |
| 196  | Lucario            |  0.305% |
| 197  | Espeon             |  0.296% |
| 198  | Gardevoir          |  0.292% |
| 199  | Corsola-Galar      |  0.290% |
| 200  | Crawdaunt          |  0.285% |
| 201  | Houndoom-Mega      |  0.281% |
| 202  | Pawmot             |  0.268% |
| 203  | Florges            |  0.265% |
| 204  | Glalie-Mega        |  0.248% |
| 205  | Iron Leaves        |  0.245% |
| 206  | Staraptor          |  0.244% |
| 207  | Infernape          |  0.243% |
| 208  | Smeargle           |  0.243% |
| 209  | Regidrago          |  0.241% |
| 210  | Iron Jugulis       |  0.235% |
| 211  | Pikachu            |  0.232% |
| 212  | Tentacruel         |  0.231% |
| 213  | Arcanine           |  0.231% |
| 214  | Raichu-Alola       |  0.230% |
| 215  | Indeedee           |  0.219% |
| 216  | Maushold           |  0.218% |
| 217  | Slurpuff           |  0.214% |
| 218  | Basculegion        |  0.211% |
| 219  | Steelix-Mega       |  0.210% |
| 220  | Gigalith           |  0.204% |
| 221  | Cinccino           |  0.197% |
| 222  | Basculegion-F      |  0.194% |
| 223  | Politoed           |  0.193% |
| 224  | Darmanitan         |  0.192% |
| 225  | Whimsicott         |  0.188% |
| 226  | Rabsca             |  0.185% |
| 227  | Forretress         |  0.184% |
| 228  | Mienshao           |  0.183% |
| 229  | Scream Tail        |  0.180% |
| 230  | Sharpedo-Mega      |  0.177% |
| 231  | Slowbro-Galar      |  0.176% |
| 232  | Golisopod          |  0.176% |
| 233  | Audino-Mega        |  0.172% |
| 234  | Glastrier          |  0.170% |
| 235  | Blastoise          |  0.170% |
| 236  | Diancie            |  0.169% |
| 237  | Comfey             |  0.168% |
| 238  | Quagsire           |  0.166% |
| 239  | Tinkaton           |  0.165% |
| 240  | Enamorus-Therian   |  0.159% |
| 241  | Dragalge           |  0.156% |
| 242  | Starmie            |  0.147% |
| 243  | Orthworm           |  0.147% |
| 244  | Avalugg            |  0.140% |
| 245  | Conkeldurr         |  0.139% |
| 246  | Okidogi            |  0.138% |
| 247  | Azelf              |  0.138% |
| 248  | Braviary-Hisui     |  0.137% |
| 249  | Vaporeon           |  0.136% |
| 250  | Feraligatr         |  0.135% |
| 251  | Slither Wing       |  0.134% |
| 252  | Meloetta           |  0.133% |
| 253  | Roserade           |  0.128% |
| 254  | Ambipom            |  0.128% |
| 255  | Torterra           |  0.127% |
| 256  | Dhelmise           |  0.126% |
| 257  | Druddigon          |  0.126% |
| 258  | Krookodile         |  0.123% |
| 259  | Jolteon            |  0.121% |
| 260  | Tornadus           |  0.120% |
| 261  | Bronzong           |  0.119% |
| 262  | Talonflame         |  0.118% |
| 263  | Archeops           |  0.114% |
| 264  | Rotom-Heat         |  0.113% |
| 265  | Noivern            |  0.111% |
| 266  | Vikavolt           |  0.111% |
| 267  | Pincurchin         |  0.110% |
| 268  | Lycanroc-Dusk      |  0.110% |
| 269  | Donphan            |  0.110% |
| 270  | Crobat             |  0.110% |
| 271  | Overqwil           |  0.110% |
| 272  | Spiritomb          |  0.108% |
| 273  | Typhlosion-Hisui   |  0.108% |
| 274  | Cofagrigus         |  0.107% |
| 275  | Zoroark            |  0.106% |
| 276  | Minior             |  0.105% |
| 277  | Kilowattrel        |  0.102% |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +

National Dex UU (1630 stats)

Combined usage for National Dex UU (1630 stats)
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Percent |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| 1    | Excadrill          | 35.816% |
| 2    | Iron Moth          | 29.397% |
| 3    | Aegislash          | 23.167% |
| 4    | Ting-Lu            | 19.437% |
| 5    | Iron Hands         | 18.464% |
| 6    | Celesteela         | 18.367% |
| 7    | Skarmory           | 17.966% |
| 8    | Tyranitar-Mega     | 17.873% |
| 9    | Thundurus-Therian  | 15.606% |
| 10   | Tapu Fini          | 14.214% |
| 11   | Clefable           | 12.752% |
| 12   | Rotom-Wash         | 12.721% |
| 13   | Greninja           | 12.487% |
| 14   | Latios             | 11.245% |
| 15   | Scizor             | 10.999% |
| 16   | Hippowdon          | 10.202% |
| 17   | Magnezone          | 10.137% |
| 18   | Bisharp            |  9.601% |
| 19   | Chansey            |  9.397% |
| 20   | Zapdos-Galar       |  9.270% |
| 21   | Alakazam           |  9.260% |
| 22   | Sinistcha          |  8.575% |
| 23   | Keldeo             |  8.415% |
| 24   | Victini            |  8.074% |
| 25   | Venusaur-Mega      |  7.517% |
| 26   | Sableye-Mega       |  7.146% |
| 27   | Dracozolt          |  7.002% |
| 28   | Azumarill          |  6.395% |
| 29   | Kleavor            |  6.372% |
| 30   | Skeledirge         |  6.215% |
| 31   | Hydreigon          |  5.663% |
| 32   | Quaquaval          |  5.600% |
| 33   | Haxorus            |  5.555% |
| 34   | Slowbro            |  5.489% |
| 35   | Gardevoir-Mega     |  5.363% |
| 36   | Amoonguss          |  5.211% |
| 37   | Latias-Mega        |  5.128% |
| 38   | Hydrapple          |  4.620% |
| 39   | Beedrill-Mega      |  4.613% |
| 40   | Latios-Mega        |  4.408% |
| 41   | Gallade-Mega       |  4.285% |
| 42   | Tyranitar          |  4.216% |
| 43   | Enamorus           |  3.949% |
| 44   | Moltres-Galar      |  3.939% |
| 45   | Ribombee           |  3.799% |
| 46   | Gastrodon          |  3.692% |
| 47   | Salamence          |  3.683% |
| 48   | Slowking           |  3.668% |
| 49   | Volcanion          |  3.341% |
| 50   | Golisopod          |  3.132% |
| 51   | Gallade            |  3.070% |
| 52   | Buzzwole           |  2.863% |
| 53   | Conkeldurr         |  2.670% |
| 54   | Mamoswine          |  2.368% |
| 55   | Aerodactyl-Mega    |  2.236% |
| 56   | Arcanine-Hisui     |  2.200% |
| 57   | Blacephalon        |  2.171% |
| 58   | Tangrowth          |  2.149% |
| 59   | Zoroark-Hisui      |  2.147% |
| 60   | Tentacruel         |  2.035% |
| 61   | Heracross-Mega     |  1.975% |
| 62   | Jirachi            |  1.941% |
| 63   | Porygon-Z          |  1.915% |
| 64   | Mandibuzz          |  1.905% |
| 65   | Blissey            |  1.841% |
| 66   | Quagsire           |  1.834% |
| 67   | Zeraora            |  1.788% |
| 68   | Nidoking           |  1.746% |
| 69   | Swampert           |  1.668% |
| 70   | Terrakion          |  1.614% |
| 71   | Altaria-Mega       |  1.592% |
| 72   | Sandy Shocks       |  1.566% |
| 73   | Pecharunt          |  1.269% |
| 74   | Hawlucha           |  1.266% |
| 75   | Ambipom            |  1.182% |
| 76   | Bellibolt          |  1.155% |
| 77   | Tinkaton           |  1.138% |
| 78   | Lokix              |  1.133% |
| 79   | Tapu Bulu          |  1.114% |
| 80   | Aggron-Mega        |  1.111% |
| 81   | Scolipede          |  1.007% |
| 82   | Goodra-Hisui       |  1.003% |
| 83   | Cloyster           |  0.985% |
| 84   | Reuniclus          |  0.959% |
| 85   | Xatu               |  0.954% |
| 86   | Cresselia          |  0.936% |
| 87   | Crawdaunt          |  0.928% |
| 88   | Polteageist        |  0.885% |
| 89   | Muk-Alola          |  0.838% |
| 90   | Sceptile-Mega      |  0.836% |
| 91   | Gengar             |  0.820% |
| 92   | Infernape          |  0.813% |
| 93   | Slowbro-Galar      |  0.795% |
| 94   | Mew                |  0.788% |
| 95   | Porygon2           |  0.773% |
| 96   | Ninetales-Alola    |  0.762% |
| 97   | Latias             |  0.750% |
| 98   | Donphan            |  0.736% |
| 99   | Mimikyu            |  0.721% |
| 100  | Torterra           |  0.703% |
| 101  | Deoxys-Defense     |  0.700% |
| 102  | Gligar             |  0.689% |
| 103  | Zygarde-10%        |  0.685% |
| 104  | Hitmontop          |  0.656% |
| 105  | Grimmsnarl         |  0.645% |
| 106  | Azelf              |  0.619% |
| 107  | Stakataka          |  0.610% |
| 108  | Sharpedo-Mega      |  0.587% |
| 109  | Slither Wing       |  0.578% |
| 110  | Talonflame         |  0.572% |
| 111  | Nihilego           |  0.564% |
| 112  | Smeargle           |  0.557% |
| 113  | Ampharos-Mega      |  0.555% |
| 114  | Arctozolt          |  0.550% |
| 115  | Metagross          |  0.546% |
| 116  | Pincurchin         |  0.537% |
| 117  | Darmanitan         |  0.524% |
| 118  | Empoleon           |  0.520% |
| 119  | Indeedee           |  0.520% |
| 120  | Pidgeot-Mega       |  0.520% |
| 121  | Entei              |  0.518% |
| 122  | Starmie            |  0.503% |
| 123  | Brambleghast       |  0.484% |
| 124  | Ditto              |  0.463% |
| 125  | Druddigon          |  0.458% |
| 126  | Iron Leaves        |  0.453% |
| 127  | Espeon             |  0.434% |
| 128  | Froslass           |  0.423% |
| 129  | Breloom            |  0.420% |
| 130  | Comfey             |  0.419% |
| 131  | Cetitan            |  0.416% |
| 132  | Blastoise          |  0.401% |
| 133  | Bronzong           |  0.396% |
| 134  | Scream Tail        |  0.393% |
| 135  | Pawmot             |  0.388% |
| 136  | Primarina          |  0.383% |
| 137  | Sceptile           |  0.381% |
| 138  | Lanturn            |  0.379% |
| 139  | Lilligant-Hisui    |  0.378% |
| 140  | Scyther            |  0.367% |
| 141  | Rotom-Heat         |  0.367% |
| 142  | Cyclizar           |  0.365% |
| 143  | Marowak-Alola      |  0.356% |
| 144  | Manectric-Mega     |  0.355% |
| 145  | Galvantula         |  0.351% |
| 146  | Camerupt-Mega      |  0.345% |
| 147  | Suicune            |  0.343% |
| 148  | Iron Jugulis       |  0.332% |
| 149  | Araquanid          |  0.324% |
| 150  | Steelix-Mega       |  0.315% |
| 151  | Absol-Mega         |  0.301% |
| 152  | Klefki             |  0.298% |
| 153  | Incineroar         |  0.286% |
| 154  | Lucario            |  0.284% |
| 155  | Chandelure         |  0.265% |
| 156  | Thundurus          |  0.265% |
| 157  | Maushold           |  0.259% |
| 158  | Swellow            |  0.257% |
| 159  | Meloetta           |  0.255% |
| 160  | Ogerpon            |  0.255% |
| 161  | Raichu-Alola       |  0.246% |
| 162  | Basculegion-F      |  0.241% |
| 163  | Armarouge          |  0.239% |
| 164  | Articuno           |  0.238% |
| 165  | Krookodile         |  0.237% |
| 166  | Medicham           |  0.235% |
| 167  | Arctovish          |  0.232% |
| 168  | Cobalion           |  0.230% |
| 169  | Corsola-Galar      |  0.228% |
| 170  | Noivern            |  0.228% |
| 171  | Diggersby          |  0.223% |
| 172  | Zarude             |  0.221% |
| 173  | Chesnaught         |  0.220% |
| 174  | Ninjask            |  0.220% |
| 175  | Togekiss           |  0.215% |
| 176  | Forretress         |  0.214% |
| 177  | Shuckle            |  0.211% |
| 178  | Grafaiai           |  0.209% |
| 179  | Gardevoir          |  0.208% |
| 180  | Raikou             |  0.204% |
| 181  | Houndoom-Mega      |  0.203% |
| 182  | Weezing-Galar      |  0.203% |
| 183  | Glalie-Mega        |  0.202% |
| 184  | Bewear             |  0.197% |
| 185  | Abomasnow-Mega     |  0.194% |
| 186  | Walrein            |  0.193% |
| 187  | Tsareena           |  0.192% |
| 188  | Mienshao           |  0.190% |
| 189  | Munkidori          |  0.189% |
| 190  | Pyukumuku          |  0.182% |
| 191  | Steelix            |  0.181% |
| 192  | Hoopa              |  0.180% |
| 193  | Audino-Mega        |  0.179% |
| 194  | Muk                |  0.173% |
| 195  | Florges            |  0.173% |
| 196  | Necrozma           |  0.171% |
| 197  | Staraptor          |  0.171% |
| 198  | Decidueye-Hisui    |  0.167% |
| 199  | Roserade           |  0.165% |
| 200  | Accelgor           |  0.164% |
| 201  | Flygon             |  0.161% |
| 202  | Typhlosion-Hisui   |  0.160% |
| 203  | Glastrier          |  0.159% |
| 204  | Vaporeon           |  0.157% |
| 205  | Jolteon            |  0.147% |
| 206  | Servine            |  0.146% |
| 207  | Obstagoon          |  0.139% |
| 208  | Gigalith           |  0.138% |
| 209  | Mantine            |  0.137% |
| 210  | Milotic            |  0.133% |
| 211  | Sylveon            |  0.130% |
| 212  | Celebi             |  0.129% |
| 213  | Toxapex            |  0.129% |
| 214  | Arboliva           |  0.128% |
| 215  | Togedemaru         |  0.125% |
| 216  | Feraligatr         |  0.122% |
| 217  | Lycanroc-Dusk      |  0.118% |
| 218  | Zoroark            |  0.117% |
| 219  | Nidoqueen          |  0.114% |
| 220  | Tyrantrum          |  0.113% |
| 221  | Claydol            |  0.111% |
| 222  | Scrafty            |  0.110% |
| 223  | Delphox            |  0.109% |
| 224  | Audino             |  0.109% |
| 225  | Heracross          |  0.109% |
| 226  | Drapion            |  0.104% |
| 227  | Aerodactyl         |  0.103% |
| 228  | Aurorus            |  0.100% |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +

Drops (OU > UU)

Iron Boulder moved from NDOU to NDUU
Swampert-Mega moved from NDOU to NDUU

Raises (RU > UU)

Azumarill moved from NDRU to NDUU

Beedrill-Mega moved from NDRU to NDUU

Drops (UU > RU)

Enamorus moved from NDUU to NDRU

Gastrodon moved from NDUU to NDRU

Golisopod moved from NDUU to NDRU

Latias moved from NDUU to NDRU

Moltres-Galar moved from NDUU to NDRUBL


Looks like TBIC106 lives another day and we still have to deal with Iron Boulder anyway and ND RU is in shambles huh

 

[Moyashi]

Beedrill-Mega moved from NDRU to NDUU

w h y

How does both ou and uu have such awful noobmons getting spammed over actually good mons

 

[Lupla]

Now that we have spent almost a full week with Iron Boulder i think it's about time to discuss it's presence, starting this post with.


Iron Boulder and why it's not broken enough
​

Swords Dance

Iron Boulder @ Booster Energy / Rockium Z / Psychium Z / Groundium Z / Fightinium Z
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Mighty Cleave
- Zen Headbutt / Close Combat
- Earthquake / Close Combat

Choice Band

Iron Boulder @ Choice Band
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Mighty Cleave
- Zen Headbutt
- Close Combat
- Earthquake

So we already know what this mon does, the future paradox of Terrakion that does the exact same rolls with a few differences, being WAY faster with a base 124 Speed ( Speed Tier) and being another Rock type with a reliable stab option similar to Ogerpon-C. Even more can be found in it's great bulk for an offensive threat, allowing it to take one or two hits to setup or attack, alongside great coverage in Close Combat and Earthquake that dismantles the few Steels that actually resist Mighty Cleave, this thing has everything going for it to be banworthy.

Unfortunately despite looking amazing on paper, once in the field you'll start to realize the massive drawbacks this thing has. Iron Boulder trades it's decent Rock/Fighting typing with a far worse combination in Rock/Psychic, leaving it with more weaknesses than what regular Terrakion already had to be concerned with. It's weak to really common ofensive types in Water, Grass, Ground, Ghost and Dark which you'll find on every single team and this also means being weak to all priority options (Aegislash's Shadow Sneak, Scizor's Bullet Punch, Bisharp's Sucker Punch, Greninja's Water Shuriken and even the newly explored Lokix's First Impression).

Now this wouldn't be a deciding factor if Iron Boulder had the offense to make up for it right? Well time to rip off the band aid. If losing STAB Close Combat for a much weaker Zen Headbutt was already bad enough, Base 120 Attack with weaker moves is certainly not something to be happy about. This makes it a lot more dependant on Swords Dance and Choice Band as it's embarrasingly weak without a boost.

Calcs

252 Atk Iron Boulder Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 146-172 (42.8 - 50.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Iron Boulder Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ting-Lu: 204-242 (39.6 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Iron Boulder Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 270-320 (83.5 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Iron Boulder Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Both: 156-184 (59.7 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Iron Boulder Mighty Cleave vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Celesteela: 144-169 (36.1 - 42.4%) -- 94.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Iron Boulder Mighty Cleave vs. 248 HP / 120+ Def Rotom-Wash: 112-133 (36.9 - 43.8%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Swords Dance Boost

+2 252 Atk Iron Boulder Mighty Cleave vs. 248 HP / 120+ Def Rotom-Wash: 225-265 (74.2 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Iron Boulder Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ting-Lu: 408-480 (79.3 - 93.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Iron Boulder Mighty Cleave vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Celesteela: 285-336 (71.6 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Iron Boulder Mighty Cleave vs. 252 HP / 152+ Def Venusaur-Mega: 196-232 (53.8 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I could go on and on with calcs but point is, it struggles with power A LOT, often needing a lot of hazard support or chip in order to get past common defensive staples or bulky attackers. There's also the issue of coverage since it wants all 4 of Mighty Cleave (Consistent stab), Zen Headbutt (Way more damage than Earthquake agaisn't M-Venusaur, Iron Hands or Hippowdon especially when boosted), Close Combat (Hitting Ting-Lu and killing M-Tyranitar or Excadrill without giving them a chance to live and murder you) and Earthquake (Hitting Aegislash, opposing Boulder and Magnezone).



So now i wanna move on to the next point which is a short explanation as to why it could be too much for the tier despite all of this.

Swords Dance with Booster Speed on their own aren't a problem, even adding Choice Band to the mix doesn't give it enough pressure to be considered banworthy. The real deal are Swords Dance sets with Z-Crystals, those are not a thing in regular SV but in ND having access to these can allow Iron Boulder access to the power it desperately needs and break through some of these roadblocks with the right Z-Move, obviously this doesn't fix everything as you're always gonna miss out on something while not having the safety of outspeeding everything in the tier (opening up Scarfers to revenge you which wasn't possible before).

But despite that, the Speed Tier is still incredible and it's capable of taking one hit at the very least and leave a sizeable mark that wouldn't be possible with any other set. Being a decent answer to either fragile offensive threats such as Booster Speed Iron Moth, Battle Bond Greninja or Alakazam or literally anything in a pinch like Dragon Dance M-Tyranitar or Adamant Sand Rush Excadrill.

Unfortunately i don't have any notable replays at hand but anyone who has played Iron Boulder can probably understand a thing or two of what i said in this post and also the possibility of it being problematic in the future.

 

[Pubo]

​

The fraud allegations are real and our favorite Boulder does not seem as broken as expected. However, Iron Boulder is still a huge threat (especially for BOs since Rock + Fighting coverage eats our defensive cores) and i would like to discuss some of its best answers here. (Mostly Booster Speed, Z sets are really good as well but they all have different checks [BAN])

Hyper Offense​

Set

Aegislash @ Air Balloon
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Claw
- Shadow Sneak
- Close Combat

Air Balloon is probably the best counter for HO, being immune to Earthquake and KOing Boulder with Shadow Claw. Running Air Balloon is not bad at all since spinblocking Excadrill helps partners like Booster Moth or G-Moltres. If you are looking for a Boulder answer this guy is easily the first choice.

Scizor

Scizor @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off
- Close Combat / Trailblaze / Dual Wingbeat / Quick Attack

Iron Hands, Celesteela, Skarmory, Rotom-W, and Iron Moth everywhere makes offensive Scizor look like a subpar choice most of the time, being incapable of cleaning games like previous generations. Without defensive investment, Scizor feels like a completely different Pokemon and a much worse version of itself. Iron Boulder popularity can maybe justify a niche, since Life Orb Bullet Punch always KO it, but you will probably need to sack something because Scizor can't really take hits from Boulder. Basically the Scizor Vs. Meteor Beam Nihilego scenario, but you re forced to run Life Orb this time.

​

Budget Kingambit

Bisharp @ Life Orb / Black Glasses / Eviolite
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head

Azumarill

Azumarill @ Normalium Z / Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Knock Off / Liquidation / Encore

Bisharp is a weird Pokemon at this moment, Sucker Punch and Knock are for sure great tools, but you can't really setup (just Clefable and Fini ig) AND its breaking power is not fantastic. Black Glasses Sucker Punch KOs Boulder, which is cool... but this is not a switch-in AND Ferropalmas is everywhere, ready to hug you.

Azumarill is a more niche option since its typing allows it to somewhat check Greninja for HO, but we have a good amount of Water resistances that can eat +6 Jet AND Azu can't OHKO Boulder with Aqua Jet, making it a weird option as well.

Bulky Offense / Balance
​

Hippo

Hippowdon @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Whirlwind / Toxic

After 2 Bans and a drop, now you finally have a reason to run Hippo! Phy Def is easily the best or second best check available, easily eating hits even from Swords Dance Z sets and KOing back with Earthquake after small chip. Ting-Lu can eat a + 2 CC, but you really want to preserve its HP for other theats imo (). Z Crystals are broken so you might need to sack something.

Driller

Excadrill @ Steelium Z / Leftovers
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rapid Spin / Rock Slide

Excadrill is not really a switch-in unfortunately AND you must run Jolly. Most Scarfers can't outspeed Iron Boulder OR fail to OHKO it, making Driller the best Speed Control against this guy.

Tangrowth

Tangrowth @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
- Focus Blast / Hidden Power [Fire]
- Sleep Powder

Swampert

Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed / Sassy Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Flip Turn
- Earthquake
- Toxic / Yawn

Mega with some investment is probably consistent as well

Tangrowth can take Speed Booster, but just like most counterplay, Z sets can nuke this guy from Earth (Giga Drain 2HKOes and heals a good amount) .

Swampert can deal with Speed Booster quite well, but Z sets can be problematic after some chip. No reliable recovery or Boots means hazards will cook you really fast because you want this guy to pivot around.

Big Stall
​

Goat

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD or 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock / Spikes
- Recover
- Toxic / Scald

God is here to save you from Mega Tyranitar, Iron Hands, and Iron Boulder!

Quag is really good since Unaware makes Boulder unable to anything, but fitting this guy on any team besides stall feels like a nightmare because you are always losing momentum. I really hope gamefreak gives Flip Turn for him next Gen!

Choice Band sets are also interesting on paper (need some time to build teams with it), our Rock "resistances" are usually scared of coverage, having a 100% accuracy Rock-type move is REALLY good AND the Speed tier is crazy. (UR Terrakion)

 

[Runo]

Similar to what happened last seasonal I would like to ask people who got a high placement in Natdex UU Winter Seasonal to share their thoughts on the metagame.

Tags:
Lostmemories R1C3M4N Banbadoro Razorgliscor Baddy Runo Rafadude TBIC106 Oblivion Wing sufys sealoo jawabarat
Regardless of if you're apart of this list or not, we would still enjoy any sort of feedback!

Here's some icebreaker questions:

• How was your experience in playing the tier?
• What mons do you find to be underrated right now?
• What mons do you find to be overrated right now?
• what playstyle do you feel is the strongest / weakest?
• Are you willing to share any teams or sets?

 

[sealoo]

I only really touch NDUU when it's tour time but I like to think I sort of stay in touch with the meta as a whole as not a ton changes.


I think you have to actively find a reason to not use this on most teams, this is one of the single most dominant mons ive ever witnessed in a given tier.


If there's a reason to not use MTTar, here it is. Wonderful Frog is nothing short of spectacular and does a ton of work on a game-to-game basis.


Imo this mon has a lot of potential and people should try it out more.


You can tech so many random Z-moves on this shit it's not even funny, Id reckon giving it a shot.

example team I had from ssnl (albeit with Hands)


Reminds me of MTTar/MVenu in the sense that this shit is always gonna do work no matter what.


I used this mon a ton during the course of the tour- I think I rate it higher than most.


This mon is SO goated, great for those moth hos teams


Mon feels quite strong into a lot of builds. Im a fan of it especially with Z to ward off MTTar.


I honestly do not see the hype with this guy, way too exploitable.


Specs fini is the truth, highly recommend this set with good mvenu proof

Metagame Thoughts

• Iron Hands probably deserve its ban, although as the suspects waned I began to think that it may not be AS bad.
  
  
• Iron Moth isnt really broken at all, however, it is very constricting and makes building more strangling.
  
  
• A lot of neat techs that can be used to get around MTTar's dominance, specifically s/o to R1C3M4N , your creativity is very refreshing to see
  
  
• Speed control is AWFUL oh my god, it is such a chore to put it on a team while feeling confident. I think Scarf Zap is the pinnacle of the speed control atm but everything else...quite bad!
  
  
• What's worse than the speed control? REMOVAL!!! Oh my goodness...I dont know if Ive ever seen a tier with worse hazard removal. It is a barren wasteland of terrible foggers/spinners who lose to most hazard setters. I think this is the single biggest issue with the tier and honestly, idk how you fix it
  
  
• Overall, I think yall have been doing a great job when it comes to the bans (Latios, ThundyT, Hands). The tier had way too many offensive threats to cover to the point where building felt very demotivating and linear to me personally, however, I think the tier will be in a great state for open and I look forward to competing and (hopefully) winning. The only slight concern I may have is with , the aforementioned speed control issue makes this thing quite a pain to deal with in builder and the common sash makes it even harder in play when mttar sand is the primary form of chip. may end up being broken for the same reason (bar the sash part) but i dont see it. Seems manageable enough
  
  
• Special shoutouts to Runo // Lupla // TBIC106 // Danbear02 // Pubo , ur dedication is awesome to see and this tier is really coming into its own in regards to stability. Looking forward to open/ndpl! (hopefully nduupl too...)

 

[Razorgliscor]

Experience with the tier:

Roller coaster because of the bans (Cinderace, Latios, ThundT) which changed the shape of the meta drastically. Cinderace was one of the main speed control options in the tier and after we saw it leave it was considerably harder to make teams that were able to out offense threats like Latios and ThundT. These mons then took over the meta if they weren't already at the fore front especially for Latios. The main Latios check in TingLu could be baited by its new Buff in Flip Turn especially with spikes up since TingLu doesn't exactly appreciate constant hazard pressure. And then you have ThundT where if you didn't outspeed it, it was virtually impossible to win vs it as I saw vs Riceman when I accidentally brought a slow team. In the Aftermath the Tier felt a lot more stable albeit with an issue mon that later got banned(Iron Hands) and the continously Controversial mon(Iron Moth).

Underrated and Overrated:

This is a tough one since I think most mons are accurately rated but first I will shout out Mgallade for the 1 week we had in between Latios ban and the introduction of Boulder. Because in that week it felt like Mgallade would've ended up way better because it was able to punish essentially the entire meta with Stabs+Knock (and technically still can but idk if yall would like this over Boulder). Gun to the back of my head I'd probably have to say Harc didn't exactly use this in ssnl but used it vs Artymasion in Trios and this mon is strong as shit and doesn't have the drawback of a Victini Vcreate. As for Overrated I'm probably pointing towards Enamorus and Buzzwole here. Buzzwole will probably feel better post Hands ban but pre Hands ban it definitely felt like Hands was way more spammable and there are more preferable Physical walls than Buzzwole imo like Mvenu and Skarmory. Enamorus kinda hates choice locking into anything while CM sets feel like they're both not strong or fast enough. It's that simple, also you just struggle to break Mvenu ever even if you're using Specs.

Playstyle:

Definitely changed as the meta went at first it was definitely like Cinderace BO or HO but as we got to the pre Hands Ban Era it was way easier to use Mvenu Balance and that seemed like the meta even with the existence of Mtar. Post Hands I don't really know but I can't imagine anything happens besides Balance being able to diversify. The worst is definitely Stall imo, maybe I don't have the greatest sample but it seems like things like Subtox Aegislash, Band Boulder, Scarf Washer, and Rocks Clefable are some of the worst things to happen to stall. Can't imagine it's much better into things like Mtar, Moth, Excadrill, or Gren anyways. While Stall can probably work idt Msab really blocks hazards the same way it used to in SS NDUU.

Sets/Teams:

No, mostly because they're some of the most basic shits ever, you'd probably be able to make the same teams I had if you just looked at them

 

[Lostmemories]

v stale, u will see the same 14 mons maybe sometimes ru is better inspiration to build. Underated is prob Hisuian dec(never brought it but z fly by rice was p cool and hey a ttar switch can be fog support or offensive), bulu too i think is insane (some sort of ttar bulu build in future maybe, my hera build of it was really trash), and ofc this doesn't need to be said but Arctozolt is p goated even tho w sand supremacy I think maybe hail can find a way. Scizor is also p underrated imo, it carried my ass this snl and i initially used it as a check to boulder but it proved really useful w knock utility and strong endgame sweeper. Also looking forward to experimenting w haxorous and nape too in the future. Nothing i find really overrated, mons like Mega tar and ting are just really good and moth I've seen recently too is moth pivot tpsike support>booster value wise excluding ho. Balance/Bo i feel are best rn.